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  1. #31

    Default Re: 1 second Regulator – state of play (By: Phil Burman)

    How are you graining it, vertically?

    I use 800 for graining, though usually I'm restoring and do a lot with 1200 to clean and leave the original graining with with some tarnish so that it doesn't look too bling on an old clock.

    Will be interesting to see your finished dial, I've never worked on a new one.
    Nick, lots to learn, late starter.

  2. #32
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    Default Re: 1 second Regulator – state of play (By: novicetimekeeper)

    I'm graining it circumferentially, pivoted about the centre hole. It's now clear that I should have taken more care regarding scratches on what was originally supposed to be the back side, and possibly I should have grained it before engraving, or maybe not. Everything I do related to clocks is new to me so most things end up being done at least twice. I just hope that what I learn I don't forget for the next one. I think maybe I need to start taking notes to compensate for my poor short term memory.

    Phil

  3. #33

    Default Re: 1 second Regulator – state of play (By: Phil Burman)

    I think, traditionally, round clocks have been grained vertically. The graining is much finer than you would expect on a chapter ring. It may be rather easier to do it that way, there must be a reason why they did it.

    here is an example

    http://www.antiques-atlas.com/antiqu...lock/as392a139
    Nick, lots to learn, late starter.

  4. #34
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    Default Re: 1 second Regulator – state of play (By: novicetimekeeper)

    Thanks for the input, that's an interesting point. What's the technique for vertical graining, how do you control the process to ensure that the graining is straight and vertical.

    Phil

    PS: I think you may have identified the problem.

  5. #35

    Default Re: 1 second Regulator – state of play (By: Phil Burman)

    I have not done a round one yet but when I have had a dial centre to do I do it my hand.
    Nick, lots to learn, late starter.

  6. #36
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    Default Re: 1 second Regulator – state of play (By: novicetimekeeper)

    Quote Originally Posted by novicetimekeeper View Post
    I have not done a round one yet but when I have had a dial centre to do I do it my hand.
    Yes but what do you do by hand, vertical or circumferential?

    Phil

  7. #37

    Default Re: 1 second Regulator – state of play (By: Phil Burman)

    sorry, dial centres are grained vertically. They were silvered on late 18th century longcase clocks before they went to flat sheet dial plates that were all over silvered, those were grained vertically too. I haven't done one of those either. However I have done dial centres by hand.
    Nick, lots to learn, late starter.

  8. #38
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    Default Re: 1 second Regulator – state of play (By: novicetimekeeper)

    Quote Originally Posted by novicetimekeeper View Post
    sorry, dial centres are grained vertically. They were silvered on late 18th century longcase clocks before they went to flat sheet dial plates that were all over silvered, those were grained vertically too. I haven't done one of those either. However I have done dial centres by hand.
    Hello again, sorry but I still do not understand. You say "dial centres are grained vertically". and "However I have done dial centres by hand".
    How do you do the centers by hand, vertical or circumferential?

    Phil

  9. #39

    Default Re: 1 second Regulator – state of play (By: Phil Burman)

    Dial centres are grained vertically and I have done them by hand. IE Freehand
    Nick, lots to learn, late starter.

  10. #40
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    Default Re: 1 second Regulator – state of play (By: novicetimekeeper)

    Quote Originally Posted by novicetimekeeper View Post
    Dial centres are grained vertically and I have done them by hand. IE Freehand
    OK I got there eventually. So you do it vertically but you control straightness and orientation by hand only.

    Phil

  11. #41

    Default Re: 1 second Regulator – state of play (By: Phil Burman)

    yes, I'm not the only one who does that, there is a training video on here somewhere about resilvering and that guy does it by hand too on a flat sheet arched dial. a bracket clock so a bit smaller than a longcase. I have seen people use a jig to do chapter rings which are grained as a circle but I've also seen that done freehand.
    Nick, lots to learn, late starter.

  12. #42

    Default Re: 1 second Regulator – state of play (By: novicetimekeeper)

    I agree with Nick, the graining should be straight and true. Someone with your skill should not have any problem making up some sllding rig that your abrasive would follow.

    On the hour arbor, some regulators have the arbor with a mounted matching wheel to the great wheel, 1:1 and drive wheel to wheel... no pinion.

    Your movement looks very nice. The performance is outstanding.

    Ralph

  13. #43
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    Default Re: 1 second Regulator – state of play (By: Ralph)

    Here’s a Microset plot that shows a strange transient rate change for a permanent change in ambient temperature of 4 degree C.

    At around 17:00 on the first day the heating in the room was turned off an the temperature allowed to fall. Almost immediately the rate slowed rapidly and was mirrored by a similar rapid increase in amplitude, as you might expect. What was not expected was that this slowing of the rate was produced by a falling temperature. The bob was suspended from its centre using a clamp, without the temperature compensation device being active.

    Half way thought the temperature drop the slowing of the rate and increase in amplitude stopped and then reversed with a speeding up of the rate but surprisingly without any change in amplitude. When the temperature reached its lowest value the rate continued to speed up, indicating a high degree of lag relative to the ambient temperature. The rate finally returned to slightly above the starting point, when the temperature was 4 deg C higher. During all of the temperature increase the amplitude remained constant.

    This transient change in rate resulted in an equivalent permanent drift from the true time of approximately 0.5 seconds which is not good for the precision I am aiming for, consequently I need to understand what’s going on so I can hopefully eliminate or at least mitigate the effect.

    I have observed this transient effect a number of times and below is a typical plot:

    Does anybody have any theories as to what is going on?

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	temperature variation gps.jpg 
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    Phil

  14. #44
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    Default Re: 1 second Regulator – state of play (By: Phil Burman)

    What is more interesting is what would take 8 or 9 hours
    to settle down? It is hard to think what might have
    that kind of time constant?
    Tinker Dwight

  15. #45
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    Default Re: 1 second Regulator – state of play (By: Tinker Dwight)

    Hi Tinker, thanks for the input. I think there are two clues: the amplitude doesn't change during the 8 hours and the rate of change of the rate over the 8 hours is constant (no tailing off as it approaches equalisation). These two clues seem to indicate that the issue is not thermal expansion/heat capacity related, but what then? I think I may tried to see if I can repeat the result!

    Phil

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