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  1. #1
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    Default 1 second Regulator – state of play

    Here are some details of the various components of the 1 second regulator I am working on.

    The suspension is a Strasser style twin spring arrangement with a 10mm invar pendulum rod. The pendulum bob geometry is to be decided but will include Riefler style expansion compensation, using an aluminium/brass tube under the bob and sitting on the regulation nut.

    The wheel train uses involute gears (oh dear) and directly drives the separately mounted hour, minute and second hands. The going train is:

    Wheel 1pinion 1Wheel 2pinion 2Wheel 3pinion 3Wheel 4pinion 4Esc. Whlbeat
    # of teeth9616100501281612016301.0000
    ratio6287.5
    Module110.80.80.80.80.80.8
    PCD96168040102.412.89612.8

    There is no motion works, the hands are mounted directly on the going train.

    The movement is sized (or possibly over sized) for a 16” silvered dial, a rough sketch of the current plan for the finished clock is included.

    A number of significant mistakes in the design have been made but as the primary goal is for a precision clock these errors have not yet been corrected where there is no implication for the precision. I can easily visualise that the clock will never be completed (by me) and that I will spend the rest of my life improving the precision. It’s all about the journey not the destination.

    Any comments, good or bad, are welcome.

    Phil


    Click image for larger version. 

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    Last edited by Phil Burman; 11-30-2016 at 10:09 AM.

  2. #2
    Registered User Jim DuBois's Avatar
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    Default Re: 1 second Regulator – state of play (By: Phil Burman)

    Looks like some first rate craftsmanship! Nice work! Keep the details coming.

  3. #3

    Default Re: 1 second Regulator – state of play (By: Jim DuBois)

    Is that why regulators look like that? I had always assumed it was so that they were easier to read accurately. Is there an advantage in accuracy by excluding the motion work needed to get all the hands coaxial?
    Nick, lots to learn, late starter.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: 1 second Regulator – state of play (By: novicetimekeeper)

    Quote Originally Posted by novicetimekeeper View Post
    Is that why regulators look like that? I had always assumed it was so that they were easier to read accurately. Is there an advantage in accuracy by excluding the motion work needed to get all the hands coaxial?
    I think regulators take many forms but the basic requirement is that they provide you with sufficient accuracy to allow you to properly regular other clocks and timing devices. This is most easily achieved with a mechanical clock when it uses a pendulum, is weight driven and has a seconds hand. In addition accuracy is improved when friction is reduced, so one theory for separate hands might be the avoidance of additional friction associated with the complication of driving all hands coaxial.

    Phil

  5. #5

    Default Re: 1 second Regulator – state of play (By: Phil Burman)

    Quote Originally Posted by Phil Burman View Post
    I think regulators take many forms but the basic requirement is that they provide you with sufficient accuracy to allow you to properly regular other clocks and timing devices. This is most easily achieved with a mechanical clock when it uses a pendulum, is weight driven and has a seconds hand. In addition accuracy is improved when friction is reduced, so one theory for separate hands might be the avoidance of additional friction associated with the complication of driving all hands coaxial.

    Phil
    Ah,I should have been more specific, as a collector of 18th century English longcase regulators are all very much like yours..
    Nick, lots to learn, late starter.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: 1 second Regulator – state of play (By: novicetimekeeper)

    Quote Originally Posted by novicetimekeeper View Post
    Ah,I should have been more specific, as a collector of 18th century English longcase regulators are all very much like yours..
    Based on a quick look at Derek Roberts book on "English Precision Pendulum Clocks" some 18th century regulators appear to have co-axial minute and hour hands.

    Phil
    Last edited by Phil Burman; 11-30-2016 at 01:51 PM.

  7. #7

    Default Re: 1 second Regulator – state of play (By: Phil Burman)

    Quote Originally Posted by Phil Burman View Post
    Based on a quick look at Derek Roberts book on "English Precision Pendulum Clocks" some 18th century regulators appear to have co-axial minute and hour hands.

    Phil
    This is the sort of thing I think of, which is more in line with yours.

    https://www.bonhams.com/auctions/21931/lot/65/

    Regulators still command a higher price here, though obviously this one is a bit special.
    Nick, lots to learn, late starter.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: 1 second Regulator – state of play (By: novicetimekeeper)

    Quote Originally Posted by novicetimekeeper View Post
    This is the sort of thing I think of, which is more in line with yours.

    https://www.bonhams.com/auctions/21931/lot/65/

    Regulators still command a higher price here, though obviously this one is a bit special.
    Yes a bit special but priced accordingly.

    Phil

  9. #9

    Default Re: 1 second Regulator – state of play (By: Phil Burman)

    Phil,
    Excellent job!
    One item that I wish I had incorporated in my Strasser clock was a way to adjust the beat other than bending the "crutch" shown in the 3rd photo. Very slight adjustments make a big difference in beat. I am certainly interested in any ideas you have in this area.
    Allan

  10. #10
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    Default Re: 1 second Regulator – state of play (By: Allan Wolff)

    Quote Originally Posted by Allan Wolff View Post
    Phil,
    Excellent job!
    One item that I wish I had incorporated in my Strasser clock was a way to adjust the beat other than bending the "crutch" shown in the 3rd photo. Very slight adjustments make a big difference in beat. I am certainly interested in any ideas you have in this area.
    Allan
    Hello Allan. for the moment I have included a grub screw, with brass pad, see photo. I also used grub screws in the Skeleton clock to allow adjustment of the pallets relative to each other. It would be nice to have some form of micrometer adjustment. I did think of including a fixed disc with tick marks and a single tick mark on the pallet arm, which I think might work well enough to provide a relative reference point when making adjustments, something to thing about down the road.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Phil

  11. #11

    Default Re: 1 second Regulator – state of play (By: Phil Burman)

    Quote Originally Posted by Phil Burman View Post
    ........................................... I can easily visualise that the clock will never be completed (by me) and that I will spend the rest of my life improving the precision. It’s all about the journey not the destination.................................
    Phil
    Yep, know exactly how you feel! If you are anything like me, building and improving something is far and away more rewarding and educational than reading all the available literature.

    Great workmanship and planning IMHO.

    Thanks for posting and I am anxious to follow your progress to learn what discoveries you make along the way.
    "To invent you need a good imagination and a pile of junk." - Thomas Edison
    Best wishes to Ya'll. Sincerely, Jim

  12. #12
    Registered user. tok-tokkie's Avatar
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    Default Re: 1 second Regulator – state of play (By: jhe.1973)

    I am much impressed by this clock.
    Are the frame plates stainless steel? How thick are they?
    I look forward to reading about making it & solving problems.
    I have spent about 20 years making & refining a regulator - also without motion work but mine has conventional face with center sweep seconds hand. It has given me much pleasure to solve the glitches and mysteries. However mine is not of regulator accuracy - sadly.
    Have started drafting a write up.

  13. #13
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    Default Re: 1 second Regulator – state of play (By: tok-tokkie)

    Quote Originally Posted by tok-tokkie View Post
    Are the frame plates stainless steel? How thick are they?
    The end plates are aluminium, 0.25” x 11” x 6.8”. I originally bought brass plates to the same dimensions, expensive. So being aware of my scope for mistakes and errors and the fact that this clock is a “design as you go” the probability of the end plates coming out the other end unscathed was/is pretty low, so I decided to start with aluminium end plates (and pillars) at a fraction of the cost. This seems to have been a good decision as I immediately proceeded to make several errors on the second plate. I fixed or ignored the mistakes and carried on. If/when I complete the development version I can go back and build a second clock adapted to incorporate all the things I will have learned during the construction of the original. Alternatively I can’t see any technical reason not to stick with aluminium plates, other than tradition. The plates have brass inserts with bearing races supporting all the wheel arbors.

    Phil

  14. #14
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    Default Re: 1 second Regulator – state of play (By: Phil Burman)

    Here’s where I’m currently at. I’ve been experimenting with difference bob and drive weight configurations in mild steel (without temperature or barometric compensation) and have arrived at the configuration shown in the photo. The bob weight is 13 lb and the drive weight is 6 lb, the amplitude with this configuration is approximately 1.3 degrees. I’m currently redoing this arrangement in stainless steel and brass with an invar rod and temperature compensation.

    The graph is from my Microset timer and it is a great surprise to me that, without any special preparation - straight out of the box so to speak, it shows that the gain/loss over 48 hours never exceeded an incredible + or - 0.1 seconds. I’ve treble check it and it appears to be correct.

    Phil
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  15. #15

    Default Re: 1 second Regulator – state of play (By: Phil Burman)

    that's a brilliant result.
    Nick, lots to learn, late starter.

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