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  1. #31

    Default Re: High End Watch Sales are Falling Rapidly (By: WristPeep)

    Quote Originally Posted by WristPeep View Post
    The main reason the "New Luxury Watch Market" is dead is because all the old folks who owned all these older vintage watches are now dying off and all their old goodies are coming to market for fractions of what these newer watches go for...
    Also with the world of fake high end watches why bother..?
    I don't think that anybody would argue against the validity of what you say there, i.e., point and opinion taken. However, how you say things (Raising your "voice" -All Caps-, and referring to others as "old farts".) may work against you, and could illustrate just why some old-timer hasn't shared information with you in the past.)

    The NAWCC folks here are always willing to take the time to share information even when they know that somebody is just looking for a shortcut to make some money, and has no real interest in watches. But the knowledgeable here do help most who ask for it civilly, and with some sign of appreciation.

    Quote Originally Posted by WristPeep View Post
    I read a few of you old timers think we Millennial's have no interest in old mechanical watches..?
    That simply is NOT TRUE..!
    There is a lot of young people interested in watch making, restoration, and repair...
    IT IS YOU OLD FARTS WHO DO NOT WANT TO GIVE/SHARE REPAIR INFORMATION, NOT US YOUTH; SO BLAME YOURSELVES AND OWN EGOS..!
    Thanks All Millennial's...
    That was probably me that you are referring to here. I can't say I take too kindly to the style of your communication. Maybe I'm misreading something, but I don't think so.

    If it was me, bear in mind that I framed what I said to be what it was, an opinion. I also did not disparage millenials by calling them names, or saying that they were all alike in some way, aside from age. I did not say anything that was prefaced, explicitly or implicitly, that said, "all millenials...". Mine was an opinion that I will stand by. I may be wrong. Perhaps there are lots of millenials that work on their own cars, and learned how to fix mechanical things when they were growing up. I just don't see it here in the suburbs of So.Cal. I am sure that some areas of the country have a lot of millenials that do such things. I just don't see them. It's less likely that one will learn an appreciation of mechanical things as we move further away from things mechanical. I'm glad that you are an exception, and did gain this appreciation somehow.

    Regardless of my understanding of your position and opinion, I, for one, hope you'll find a bit more diplomacy/decorum when you post here. .This one was a bit lacking in it, despite the possibility that it contains kernels of truth. Cheers.

  2. #32
    Registered user. roughbarked's Avatar
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    Default Re: High End Watch Sales are Falling Rapidly (By: glenhead)

    WristPeep. The reason that watchmaking schools are rare, is that for many decades now, quartz mechanisms have dominated. It is not about old farts not disseminating information. It is about a populace that doesn't care if their watch is plastic or not.There is no great need for trained watchmakers out in the sticks. A Timex used to be a ####box watch never designed to be repaired unless you had the factory holding frame. Like cameras they are built upside down. Since the advent of quartz, Timex are one of the world's top sellers. The real difference about say a Blancpain is that it is all hand finished. Replacement parts are expensive. A complication is as the name suggests complicated. This is always a more costly repair than others.

  3. #33
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    Default Re: High End Watch Sales are Falling Rapidly (By: WristPeep)

    Quote Originally Posted by WristPeep View Post
    There is a lot of young people interested in watch making, restoration, and repair...
    IT IS YOU OLD FARTS WHO DO NOT WANT TO GIVE/SHARE REPAIR INFORMATION, NOT US YOUTH; SO BLAME YOURSELVES AND OWN EGOS..!
    Thanks All Millennial's...
    From a young person, go buy a book and read it (I highly recommend Dale Carnegie's "how to win friends and influence people" before you buy any books on watches, do some work yourself and earn it then come back and be part of the community. Not everything is instant and things like skills and knowledge take years to gain, I've been collecting on 3 years and I spend maybe 5 hours a week researching and what do I know ? not enough, but I do know how to treat people with respect and in return they are kind enough to share their knowledge with me and that has allowed me to progress at my own pace.

  4. #34

    Default Re: High End Watch Sales are Falling Rapidly

    @glenhead: It isn't that they won't share it for a price; the ones that are still alive that is. What I have come into mostly these days is that the watchmaker is too old now, I have come across 2 so far who were Certified by Bulova as Master Techs but have Alzheimer's so that hands on information is gone now... Most have lost their vision and/or have the shakes and can't deal with it anymore, even to teach others; so I have given up on finding a seat as an apprentice...
    I will however check out some of those sites you mention as well; just to see what they offer... But I dont find needing a certification to get a job (since there is none in this dead trade) as a watchmaker because I already do it without it for myself...
    I am just not the kind of person to rely on other or even what they say... I prefer to trust my own logic and common sense; which for those reading can not be bought or found in a book either...

    @roughbarked: I totally agree with you; I too mention that a gap of the quartz era is what has caused this lack of interest and is why the field is stagnant along with the lack of guidance of the old schoolers...
    I do however disagree that quartz watches are junk; I have opened up some very advanced micro-electronic driven quartz Pilot watches and let me assure you they are just as electronically complex and hard to repair as a fully mechanical complication movement is, if not harder due to the added electronics...
    I do agree with the sense that the masses have lost interest in quality and simply are just consumers now; that is why everything is made in china because with the advent of plastic its the ideals of "throw it out; buy a new one" and that is something I do not participate in... I rather fix it before buying new; hence why I browse for information in places like this...

    @NoviceTimekeeper: You are right; people do not simply deserve respect because they are old pricks they gain respect just like anyone else does... I hold doors open for people in general no matter their age, race, or gender... I talk to or say Hi to anyone as well... However that leaves no one exempt from a middle finger and fancy saying either; I dislike everyone equally... If "bending over backwards" means suggesting who to send a watch to for a discounted service repair or the ever famous first responders reply of:
    "one would be wise to refrain from monkeying with it unless they are experienced"
    Now this is quite often the lines of responses these forums provide; why a real moderator doesnt delete all that garbage is beyond me; but not to say I haven't had my posts deleted from here before because people are too ussy footed or politically correct in this corrupt azz world... I think the shingles got a lot of yall and you guys need to toughen up that skin some...

    @MrRoundel: Not you; just a common trend I see on all these watch sites and other car and electronics forums too...

    @diveboy: Are you suggesting that this forum has some sort of secret ranking skill system that only people who prove they can fix a watch are worth giving help and information to for free..?
    I ask this since you said: "do some work yourself and earn it then come back and be part of the community"
    So like who the F are you to be setting a standard..? You do NOT know me at all & are making a huge (incorrect) assumption...


    In General:
    I have no need to go into my personal skills set; but I know I can fix anything I want if I take the time to figure it out...
    I have never and will never be a kiss azz; so forget that shiznat now people... I am naturally loud so its better you're behind a screen anyways...

    I have always done circles around the veteran techs in the various fields I master...
    The fellow techs end up getting fired because they can not do the job up to the facade of the certificates & degrees they hold... So how is it they all get fired & the companies retain me with no Certifications or Degrees..?
    Well its the fact that some of us out here are just natural with what we can do and learn with speed, precision, & consistency which is clearly what is needed to get jobs done in a technical field/trade...

    I assure you, I do not need a framed paper or someone outside myself to assure me of my skills by paying to take their course for passing slip and a pat on the back for lining their pockets and putting myself into unforgivable gov't student loan debt; so you can save that sales pitch for those who fall for gimmicks and do not believe in themselves...

    I understand where the knowledge lays; it really is in the efforts of trials and errors and with the right information to guide one... And for the most part all forums lack in helping the push of ones hands via words to help them move theirs to get the job done; if people just simply posted links to technical guides rather than their 2 cents a lot of web forums would be great...

    Has any of you people ever thought that this is why this site is failing and always needing donations..?
    Its because the Community drives new users away; its why only a few members have thousands of replies/postings and the majority has a few or none simply because of the common response I mention above... No one wants to deal with that or has time for jerks pointing to other directions or simply just there to mock one trying to learn; so people simply do not join or take part in the site...
    I for one am calling all them out and flat out telling you why and how I know many people feel but just do not feel the need to muster it up to say something; I for one believe in the ripple effect and am hopeful those who know I am talking about them or they simply know that is how they are and act might change...

    As for I; do not expect a change here... But I am always willing to share what I know and toss ideas around to find a solution to a problem regardless of if a person is up to par with the trade or not...

  5. #35
    Registered user. roughbarked's Avatar
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    Default Re: High End Watch Sales are Falling Rapidly (By: WristPeep)

    er, no Wristpeep. You have something by the short and curlies but it isn't properly in your grasp.

  6. #36

    Default Re: High End Watch Sales are Falling Rapidly (By: WristPeep)

    Quote Originally Posted by WristPeep View Post
    Never once seen a Watch Repair course available ever...
    Most watch makers are either dead, dying, or have some disorder where they can not help or do the work anymore...

    In all honesty most "forums" in general are full of replies like: "use the search button" or "send it to someone to fix"

    And are rarely (more like never) like: "Let me show you how to fix that; heres a video I did on that..."

    The fact is there is a lot of interest by young people in this area but the quartz era has caused a huge gap of interest and loss of knowledge... I get more sound information from books & tinkering on my own than I have gotten out of Forums...

    I am into anything Bulova and I love my Accutrons for the most part; but I also love the Moon Phase & Pilot Chronographs of any sorts...

    I find that most of what I need is information and not so much the people who think they know it all already (ie old dogs who dont like the new dogs in town learning new tricks) and are cocky with their egos about giving information out; mainly those with the aforementioned type of forum replies...

    The few people who do know; typically cite a printed source or book...
    So all that one really needs is a good library or source to these publishings...

    So if anyone wants to donate to me some of their Vintage Manuals and such I'd be happy to take the load of papers that you already memorized; so that a person such as myself can read them and digital preserve them for the future...
    Any PDF's are good by me too; I already have a small library off manuals but I know there is thousands of different manuals out there; but personally I like to have the pages in front of me...

    I personally do not like to wear a watch; but very much enjoy the mechanics of them and the fact that man has been trying for centuries to find accuracy with the Creator of the Universes timing...
    It was really researching the angle of a second that got me into watches...
    I am very interested in the tack you take when on the forums, if this and other recent posts are anything to go by then no wonder you have trouble finding any help. Lets address a few of your cited issues, by the way these are my opinions and observations cleened from you posts.

    No 1. All I can say is you have not been looking.

    No 2. Yes I agree that there seems to be a decline in watchmakers, but due to Forums and Horology Clubs like this one there are watch repairer's out there that are pretty damn good.

    No 3. "Full of Replies Like use the search button" Clearly looks like an overstatement, yes there are some comments that appear from time to time but are in the very small minority not the majority of posts.

    No 4. The statement "And are rarely (more like never) like: "Let me show you how to fix that; heres a video I did on that..." I agree does not occur very regular, this is due to most people having to make a living and the time it takes to show & explain the intricacies can be overwhelming in a private setting, this is one of the reasons you do not hear the words you want.

    No 5. I do agree that there are a lot of young people interested in this type of area, and sites like this one go a long way to foster all peoples interest's in the horology field, I myself have a 11 year old Grand Daughter that is amazingly interested in the mechanics of a mechanical watch.

    No 6. Glad to see you have good taste with regard to brands of wrist watches

    No 7. I find you next statement perplexing, first of all you want information but do not seem to want to interact with due respect to the people that may have it, my observations point to the fact; just because you have an interest you think people owe you something without question, politeness goes a lot further by the way!!

    No 8. The reason some people cite a book for you to get information from is because this is how a lot of us started, first the basic concepts from doing lots of research (lots of reading), then start asking some basic questions when starting your first repair.

    No 9. As for donating some books to you, why? There is a plethora of information out there through libraries and the like with regard to all sorts of Horology repairs, maintenance and restoration, a lot of books collected by most people do at times get used for reference manuals. So if these are given away no longer do you access to them yourself. Sounds to me like you want everything laid out on a platter so you have none of the tedious work, not a good start for a watch repairer/ maker, taking shortcuts!!!

    No 10. Yes, I do agree that the mechanics of the watch are enjoyable and fascinating.

    So, in concluding this long winded post I think you should take a step back and ponder your postings in my opinion.

  7. #37

    Default Re: High End Watch Sales are Falling Rapidly (By: WristPeep)

    "I have always done circles around the veteran techs in the various fields I master...
    The fellow techs end up getting fired because they can not do the job up to the facade of the certificates & degrees they hold... So how is it they all get fired & the companies retain me with no Certifications or Degrees..?
    Well its the fact that some of us out here are just natural with what we can do and learn with speed, precision, & consistency which is clearly what is needed to get jobs done in a technical field/trade..."




    Seeing you are so good at everything apparently, I am amazed you are asking questions of the people on this forum. As I said in part of my previous post "Sounds to me like you want everything laid out on a platter so you have none of the tedious work, not a good start for a watch repairer/ maker, taking shortcuts!!!"

  8. #38

    Default Re: High End Watch Sales are Falling Rapidly (By: Bila)

    WristPeep, I agree with you concerning electronics forums, but not with this forum. I've found the "old farts" to be helpful. Don't forget that they have lives, work, and family obligations like most of us do. I am very grateful of them spending some of their valuable time here to help us newbies.
    I, like you, also like to have paper books and manuals. And books I can only get in E form, I print out myself. But horology is another hobby for me and I don't expect to make a living from it, though I'll be taking some lessons anyway because I like to do whatever I do well and in a professional manner.
    Here's a photo taken with my new microscope I received a few days ago:
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  9. #39
    Registered user. roughbarked's Avatar
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    Default Re: High End Watch Sales are Falling Rapidly (By: Accutronica)

    Looks like the watch could do with a clean, accutronica.

  10. #40

    Default Re: High End Watch Sales are Falling Rapidly (By: roughbarked)

    Yeah, it's my 214 I'm fixing to clean. I had some better photos that are still in the AmScope memory, or I forgot to save them because they aren't in my laptop photos. It looks like some knucklehead oiled the index wheel...
    Anyway, I just finished applying new thermal grease to the processor and heat sink in my Dell 17R laptop, and gave it a good cleaning. It's 4 years old so it was time for some preventive maintenance. I'll get back to playing with my new microscope and learning how to use the camera and software after while.

  11. #41
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    Default Re: High End Watch Sales are Falling Rapidly (By: Accutronica)

    You think you have problems?

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  12. #42

    Default Re: High End Watch Sales are Falling Rapidly (By: roughbarked)

    Nope, my watch doesn't look as bad as that one. That reminds me - it's time that I check all of the batteries in my meters and analyzers.

  13. #43

    Default Re: High End Watch Sales are Falling Rapidly (By: roughbarked)

    Did they just cram in whatever battery would fit?

  14. #44

    Default Re: High End Watch Sales are Falling Rapidly (By: MrRoundel)

    Quote Originally Posted by MrRoundel View Post
    At the very least, analog watches are being relegated to the very expensive models for those like a like a little time-telling bling. I've thought for years that mechanical watches would be facing challenging times due to a move away from visible machines and do-it-yourselfers. In the past, even if one didn't work on their own machine, they had an appreciation for what went into it to get it working for its stated purpose. Today, so many things are non-serviceable, and what can be self-repaired, are disguised, and fastened together, to dissuade anybody doing their own work.
    Interesting article in the NYT this morning about the shortage of qualified auto-mechanics. I believe that we were collectively dissed by a younger person for not seeing that young people really were interested in mechanical things, a fact that the auto industry seems to be disputing.

    "“There’s less of a mechanical interest and understanding among young people,” said Gary Uyematsu, national technical training manager at BMW of North America, noting that the biggest hurdle in hiring is the difference in basic skills. “They are not hands-on. Mechanics used to start with some gas station experience. Now the experience a person gets working at a gas station is selling slushies.”

    https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/27/a...-article-click

  15. #45
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    Default Re: High End Watch Sales are Falling Rapidly (By: MrRoundel)

    When I was in college I discovered that the local pawn shop needed a jewelry polisher. I applied and discovered two things... it wasn't that hard but had a need for attention to detail and it paid better than any non-skilled job I could find in a town crowded with college students. I also started learning bench work too with the jeweler. I was good at it and it almost became my career. This was 1993.

    Today, I was buying groceries for the week and "kid" running the cash register mentions, in the normal small talk during the few minutes one is interacting with a cashier (It was storming out... golf-ball sized hail too) that he as a second job. States he needs to leave soon too get to it. He looked maybe 20... or 21. I asked what he did at his second job. He says he is working at jewelry store learning bench work and design. We had a good chat; annoyed the person waiting for the check out too. So, don't discount millennials as being not interested. Those types are out there. Guessing that his need for two jobs is a sign that there is still severe downward pressure on wages/salary on "skilled" trades people. Back in 1996, I was gobsmacked, when later I was working for jewelry manufacturer, at just how little very skilled bench-workers made; people I was learning from. That was no small factor which kept me working on my college degree in Chemistry. When I landed, after graduation, my first gig in my field, it paid twice what I earned as a manager in a mid-size manufacturing department. Now the chief designer made 6 figures (as I heard), despite being in and out of rehab.
    I like Longines and Gruen. Currently learning...
    -JackW

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