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  1. #16
    Registered user. roughbarked's Avatar
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    Default Re: High End Watch Sales are Falling Rapidly (By: Accutronica)

    Quote Originally Posted by Accutronica View Post
    I thought you meant that you don't wear them when going out in public and such. I hope the watches that the customers left behind are worth more than the work you did to them.
    That's the first time I've heard of those watches.
    The price of watch repairs in the 70's or even the 80's was nowhere near the price of say replacing the crystal for it today. So if I sell these watches today, i could easily recoup the money they didn't give me 30 years ago.

    When I say I haven't bought a watch, it isn't entirely corect. I did give a bloke $20 for his Seiko Bellmatic and spent money on it giving it a champagne dial and changing it from a 17 jewel to a 21 jewel watch. I later lost it in a peach orchard and years later the farmer returned it to me rusty after he'd pushed out the peaches and saw it hanging on an upturned root..

    I'll try rebirthing that soon if I can find the time.

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  2. #17
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    Default Re: High End Watch Sales are Falling Rapidly (By: roughbarked)

    It annoyed me greatly as I wished for a Certina DS or any Certina.
    I use to assemble Certina DS, back in 1975 when it was cheaper to bring a watch into Australia dissembled, the import duty on a complete watch was more, it cost the importers less to bring the watch in disassembled and pay someone to assemble them, I worked in a service centre at the time and 5 of us would take a box of cases and box of movements and put them together,

    The movements were supplied complete with dial and hands mounted, we basically would fit the movement ring, place the movement on a special jig, wrap the large rubber shock ring around then press the case on, fit the crown, fit the gasket and back, then the next one, the completed watch would go back into the box the cases came in, then another guy would mount the boxes on a heavy duty auto winder and wind the watches then check them on the timer.
    Must have done a few hundred of those, wouldn't mind having one of them now, those 25-651 were a nice movement, shame it's swatch now.

  3. #18
    Registered user. roughbarked's Avatar
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    Default Re: High End Watch Sales are Falling Rapidly (By: dAz57)

    Quote Originally Posted by dAz57 View Post
    I use to assemble Certina DS, back in 1975 when it was cheaper to bring a watch into Australia dissembled, the import duty on a complete watch was more, it cost the importers less to bring the watch in disassembled and pay someone to assemble them, I worked in a service centre at the time and 5 of us would take a box of cases and box of movements and put them together,

    The movements were supplied complete with dial and hands mounted, we basically would fit the movement ring, place the movement on a special jig, wrap the large rubber shock ring around then press the case on, fit the crown, fit the gasket and back, then the next one, the completed watch would go back into the box the cases came in, then another guy would mount the boxes on a heavy duty auto winder and wind the watches then check them on the timer.
    Must have done a few hundred of those, wouldn't mind having one of them now, those 25-651 were a nice movement, shame it's swatch now.

    Jenssen?
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ID:	325706. I remember Charles Spring was big on importing and casing.
    Last edited by roughbarked; 12-17-2016 at 10:52 PM.

  4. #19
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    Default Re: High End Watch Sales are Falling Rapidly (By: roughbarked)

    Yes I remember Gunnar was the sales agent for Certina but by 1975 Desco I think had taken over along with some other brands.
    Charles Spring, yeah we used to sell a lot of Felica watches in the shops I worked in and Citizen watches since they had their sales and service centre on the northern beaches.

  5. #20

    Default Re: High End Watch Sales are Falling Rapidly (By: dAz57)

    Back to the thread of high end watches falling rapidly except those like this one...with pockets so deep your pants would not stay up with any belt. Of course this is the big exception, but agreed that most ww and all per Jeff are becoming tough to sell without taking a bath since so many high end pump ups exist in the 100k and below range - like even under 10k must be very tough - too much merchandise and not enough newbie buyers??

    http://www.cnbc.com/2016/11/15/patek...t-auction.html

  6. #21
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    Default Re: High End Watch Sales are Falling Rapidly (By: Dick C)

    If I had to make a guess I would say the market for high-end watches is up. I see the wrists of the rich-and-famous on TV and almost all are wearing.
    Thanks - Al M. - Mexico Beach, FL
    "Come what come may, Time and the hour runs through the roughest day." ~ Macbeth

  7. #22
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    Default Re: High End Watch Sales are Falling Rapidly (By: everydaycats)

    Quote Originally Posted by everydaycats View Post
    If I had to make a guess I would say the market for high-end watches is up. I see the wrists of the rich-and-famous on TV and almost all are wearing.
    I think John Cleese wears a Blancpain grand complication. A guess from trying to slow his wrist down with my eyes while watching him on a recent TV interview.

  8. #23
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    Default Re: High End Watch Sales are Falling Rapidly (By: roughbarked)

    Guy I know was telling me that he paid $18k for a Blancpain chrono about 3-4 years ago (new) and it's now losing a few minutes a month. He said a service would be in the range of $3k! That might explain why high-end watch sales are declinging.

  9. #24
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    Default Re: High End Watch Sales are Falling Rapidly (By: roughbarked)

    Quote Originally Posted by roughbarked View Post
    I think John Cleese wears a Blancpain grand complication. A guess from trying to slow his wrist down with my eyes while watching him on a recent TV interview.
    I think I saw the same thing...I recently saw an American politician wearing too.
    Thanks - Al M. - Mexico Beach, FL
    "Come what come may, Time and the hour runs through the roughest day." ~ Macbeth

  10. #25

    Default Re: High End Watch Sales are Falling Rapidly (By: RonC)

    Quote Originally Posted by RonC View Post
    Guy I know was telling me that he paid $18k for a Blancpain chrono about 3-4 years ago (new) and it's now losing a few minutes a month. He said a service would be in the range of $3k! That might explain why high-end watch sales are declinging.
    Charging $3000 to service a watch sounds like a ripoff to me. I should've went to watchmaking school when I was young!

  11. #26

    Default Re: High End Watch Sales are Falling Rapidly (By: Douglas Romero)

    Quote Originally Posted by
    [URL
    http://www.cnbc.com/2016/11/15/patek-philippe-timepiece-becomes-most-expensive-watch-sold-at-auction.html[/URL]
    I saw the exact same moon phase watch (can not recall the name on it) it had the same exact layout as this watch with the Two Square Date registers with the Moon Phase...
    It sold for about $4,500 I have seen another with the same layout but in awful condition for about $1200...

    The main reason the "New Luxury Watch Market" is dead is because all the old folks who owned all these older vintage watches are now dying off and all their old goodies are coming to market for fractions of what these newer watches go for...
    Also with the world of fake high end watches why bother..?

    I read a few of you old timers think we Millennial's have no interest in old mechanical watches..?
    That simply is NOT TRUE..!
    There is a lot of young people interested in watch making, restoration, and repair...
    IT IS YOU OLD FARTS WHO DO NOT WANT TO GIVE/SHARE REPAIR INFORMATION, NOT US YOUTH; SO BLAME YOURSELVES AND OWN EGOS..!
    Thanks All Millennial's...

  12. #27
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    Default Re: High End Watch Sales are Falling Rapidly (By: WristPeep)

    Quote Originally Posted by WristPeep View Post
    There is a lot of young people interested in watch making, restoration, and repair...
    IT IS YOU OLD FARTS WHO DO NOT WANT TO GIVE/SHARE REPAIR INFORMATION, NOT US YOUTH; SO BLAME YOURSELVES AND OWN EGOS..!
    Wow.

    Just... Wow.

    I have no idea what part of the country you live in. Perhaps where you are the watchmakers and clockmakers you've run into aren't willing to share their expertise. (I'm sure you've asked several of them, right? That's how you came to your conclusion?) I've certainly never met any like that, but of course they have to exist.

    Here in Texas we have dozens of watchmakers and clockmakers who put on classes and take apprentices and share their deep knowledge with anyone who will listen. They don't give out participation trophies, and they expect their students and apprentices to listen and do real work and not whine about how unfair it is that they have to sweep the floor of the shop again. They don't allow web surfing or Facebook or Twitter or Snapchat or Youtube or texting or any other smartphone addictions when there's work to be done. There are watchmakers and clockmakers around the country who are exactly the same, if you take the time and put in the effort to find them. I know they're there, because I've met many of them. They're not going to walk up to you and offer, you have to ask. It's best to do it politely, since you're asking them to take on the additional work of teaching.

    There are also schools for watchmaking, where for two years and a few thousand dollars you can get fully taught and certified to service and repair watches. GIYF. Those schools also give you exposure to the industry and some of the people in it, people you can ask for help finding old timers who know how to do restorations and repairs on older timepieces.

    Glen

  13. #28

    Default Re: High End Watch Sales are Falling Rapidly (By: glenhead)

    The first millenials were born in the early eighties so they are quite long in the tooth now.

    I wear wristwatches but I collect clocks and a few pocket watches, I don't mind doing a bit of work on clocks but I certainly won't be trying to service my wristwatches. However I have found people older than me to be extremely helpful in teaching me about my hobby and sharing technical information. You only have to look at a few threads on this very forum to realise people bend over backwards to help.

    I could neither afford nor justify the indulgence of high end watches when I was young, though I have worn Rolex for nearly 30 years it was only recently I bought what we refer to in my house as a posh watch. Interestingly it appears to have gone up in value since I bought it too, though that may be mainly down to the low value of the pound.
    Nick, lots to learn, late starter.

  14. #29

    Default Re: High End Watch Sales are Falling Rapidly (By: novicetimekeeper)

    Never once seen a Watch Repair course available ever...
    Most watch makers are either dead, dying, or have some disorder where they can not help or do the work anymore...

    In all honesty most "forums" in general are full of replies like: "use the search button" or "send it to someone to fix"

    And are rarely (more like never) like: "Let me show you how to fix that; heres a video I did on that..."

    The fact is there is a lot of interest by young people in this area but the quartz era has caused a huge gap of interest and loss of knowledge... I get more sound information from books & tinkering on my own than I have gotten out of Forums...

    I am into anything Bulova and I love my Accutrons for the most part; but I also love the Moon Phase & Pilot Chronographs of any sorts...

    I find that most of what I need is information and not so much the people who think they know it all already (ie old dogs who dont like the new dogs in town learning new tricks) and are cocky with their egos about giving information out; mainly those with the aforementioned type of forum replies...

    The few people who do know; typically cite a printed source or book...
    So all that one really needs is a good library or source to these publishings...

    So if anyone wants to donate to me some of their Vintage Manuals and such I'd be happy to take the load of papers that you already memorized; so that a person such as myself can read them and digital preserve them for the future...
    Any PDF's are good by me too; I already have a small library off manuals but I know there is thousands of different manuals out there; but personally I like to have the pages in front of me...

    I personally do not like to wear a watch; but very much enjoy the mechanics of them and the fact that man has been trying for centuries to find accuracy with the Creator of the Universes timing...
    It was really researching the angle of a second that got me into watches...

  15. #30
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    Default Re: High End Watch Sales are Falling Rapidly (By: WristPeep)

    Here's a page on the American Watchmakers - Clockmakers Institute of the watchmaker schools in the United States. http://www.awci.com/education-certif...f-rec-schools/

    I know people who went to the schools in Okmulgee, Oklahoma and Ft. Worth and Paris, Texas. They're all certified and highly skilled. I know at least a few certified watchmakers who are in their 20s, so it is indeed possible for a Millenial to get off his duff and do something about it. If there are truly all these "young people in this area" it's simply a matter of following through and understanding it's not going to be handed to you. One google search for "watchmaking school" gave several other responses, including the TimeZone Watch School, an online school. I've taken a couple of his courses and can vouch for their quality.

    Watchmakers and clockmakers are in business to make money, for the most part, not feed people who want to watch videos. The skills required to overhaul and repair and restore timepieces can't be learned WELL by watching, they can only be mastered by doing. Those admittedly-few watchmakers who have put together online courses are a rare breed who have chosen a different business model for making money.

    This forum contains an immense amount of information. Yes, it's a pain in the fanny to search through it all. Yes, there are bleeps who do nothing more than make snarky comments and belittle people. Some of the regulars get annoyed with seeing the same question for the hundredth time (which oil is best? which tool is best? why is my watch overwound?), a question where it's obvious that the person asking didn't even bother to do a basic search first. I try to give a decent answer if it's been a while since the question was asked. Courtesy goes both ways - search (thoroughly) before asking.

    I taught myself how to repair watches and clocks starting about eight years ago, by reading and searching (and searching (and searching)) these forums, buying and reading many, many books, and buying and destroying eBay movements, then un-destroying them as my skills increased. I was willing to do my first "real" watch after about eight months of after-hours learning, and willing to take on someone else's watch after about a year. I'm now to the point that I'll take on any watch (including Accutrons) or clock that comes across my bench, with only one or two exceptions. For the exceptions, I know who to send the customer to. As one of my customers says, I've done everything from Timex to Rolex for him, and have done timepieces made from the 1830s through 2014.

    My training movements were Bulova 5AD movements, some in cases and some not. I chose to start with a tiny ladies' movement to truly challenge my micro-mechanical skills. All of the ones I "ruined" at first have been fixed, and six of them now belong to my daughter for everyday use. It takes a LOT of work. There is a LOT of theory you have to understand to do this well. You also need a LOT of expensive tools to get into this for real. Plan to spend in the neighborhood of $2000 to get set up with used basic tools. You'll also need to learn to use a very small lathe (Sherline and smaller), and unless you're a truly rare bird that will mean going to classes somewhere to get hands-on instruction.

    I'm fortunate enough to belong to (and am now president of) the Capital Area Watchmaker and Clockmaker Guild here in the Austin area (http://cawcg.org). This is a very, very active Guild. We put on classes several times a year, on both clocks and watches. I did not take a class on watches from the Guild until I'd been doing it on my own for nearly a year. There are several other guilds and groups throughout the United States that have similar education programs. Both the NAWCC and the AWCI have listings of them. Getting involved in one or more of said groups will give you exposure to old-timers who will talk your ear off with more information you'd ever dreamed could possibly exist. They're not going to come looking for you, you have to look for them.

    The education is out there and the people are out there who love to share. Nobody is going to hand it to you, and nobody is going to wave a magic wand and make it happen. Look for it.

    Glen

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