Goal: $300, Received: $275.00 (92%) Contribute Now
Donate whatever you can or Join the 14,000 other NAWCC members for only $80 (plus $10 for hard copy publications). Check it out here.



Page 2 of 29 FirstFirst 12345612 ... LastLast
Results 16 to 30 of 425
  1. #16

    Default Re: Josh Johnson (By: Allan C. Purcell)

    Gentlemen, before it becomes too complicated to do so, may I suggest that I split off this current discussion of the evolution of the English lever away from the Johnson thread? It warrants a thread of its own, and of course the proponents of the Johnson thread are probably getting peeved at their thread being hijacked

  2. #17

    Default Re: Josh Johnson (By: MartyR)

    Quote Originally Posted by MartyR View Post
    Gentlemen, before it becomes too complicated to do so, may I suggest that I split off this current discussion of the evolution of the English lever away from the Johnson thread? It warrants a thread of its own, and of course the proponents of the Johnson thread are probably getting peeved at their thread being hijacked

    I think that's a great idea, especially as one of my watches has been mentioned by Graham. Makes me feel like I actually have something in my tiny collection worthy of comment!
    Nick, lots to learn, late starter.

  3. #18
    Registered User Allan C. Purcell's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    305
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default Early Single Table Roller Escapements

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	2016-08-06 15.56.30.jpg 
Views:	4 
Size:	198.8 KB 
ID:	311916Click image for larger version. 

Name:	2016-08-06 15.59.46.jpg 
Views:	9 
Size:	209.0 KB 
ID:	311918Click image for larger version. 

Name:	2016-08-06 15.59.38.jpg 
Views:	18 
Size:	251.5 KB 
ID:	311919Click image for larger version. 

Name:	2016-08-06 15.58.46.jpg 
Views:	9 
Size:	153.2 KB 
ID:	311920Click image for larger version. 

Name:	2016-08-06 15.57.51.jpg 
Views:	8 
Size:	250.9 KB 
ID:	311921
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

Name:	2016-08-06 16.01.36.jpg 
Views:	8 
Size:	254.0 KB 
ID:	311917  

  4. #19
    Registered User Allan C. Purcell's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    305
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default Re: Early Single Table Roller Escapements (By: Allan C. Purcell)

    Sorry I started this with a mistake the photograph below is from another watch. To answer your questions Graham it is a single table roller, I do not look under the dials of my watches. I am a collector who collects clocks and have a few watches. Plus with my thick fingers I would be afraid of doing the watch some damage. I do though know a STR from a Massey. Talking about oppinions have you got a copy of "YOUT TIME" it is a northern section booklet, in there on page 47 is a STR by Richard Hornby, I would like your oppinion on it. They say its 1818.

    I hope those you taken interest so far will find this new thread and join in.

    Best to all,
    Allan.

  5. #20
    Registered User Allan C. Purcell's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    305
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default Re: Early Single Table Roller Escapements (By: Allan C. Purcell)

    Hi Graham,
    I have just noticed why you asked about the hands above. It has a bull´s eye glass, and some how this distorted the hour hand. They are in fact plane gold spade hands.

    Allan.

  6. #21
    Registered User gmorse's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Breamore, Hampshire, UK
    Posts
    7,038
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default Re: Early Single Table Roller Escapements (By: Allan C. Purcell)

    Hi Allan,

    I was wondering specifically about the seconds hand, since it doesn't have the gold collet. I know how these bullseye crystals can distort!

    I do have the relevant part of "Your Time" as a pdf, but I wouldn't care to venture any detailed opinions based solely on a single picture of the top plate; it certainly looks plausible for 1818. Without the watch dismantled in hand, it's pure guesswork, although Alan Treherne is very knowledgeable about the Lancashire trade. It can be difficult to say whether a watch is a conversion, in the light of the practice of the frame makers of planting the train with oversized pivots, the holes for which were then plugged and properly depthed after the arbors were finally pivoted during finishing. Signs of these large plugs can cause confusion!

    Regards,

    Graham

    "Ut tensio, sic vis" - Robert Hooke

  7. #22
    Registered User Allan C. Purcell's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    305
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default Re: Early Single Table Roller Escapements (By: gmorse)

    HI Graham,
    Thanks for that, one of the reasions I mentioned it was the AHS are now selling that book for two Pounds-to good to be true-so I bought two. Another Peace of good News while going through my pocket watches I noticed I had put my John Muncas to one side and had forgotten it too was early. So I took a look and it is Chester 1828. I will now take photographs and have them on the thread in the next half hour.

    Allan.

  8. #23
    Registered User Allan C. Purcell's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    305
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default Re: Early Single Table Roller Escapements (By: Allan C. Purcell)

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	081.jpg 
Views:	10 
Size:	352.3 KB 
ID:	311937Click image for larger version. 

Name:	080.jpg 
Views:	16 
Size:	261.0 KB 
ID:	311938Click image for larger version. 

Name:	079.jpg 
Views:	13 
Size:	177.9 KB 
ID:	311939Click image for larger version. 

Name:	078.jpg 
Views:	21 
Size:	216.2 KB 
ID:	311940Click image for larger version. 

Name:	077.jpg 
Views:	28 
Size:	274.6 KB 
ID:	311941
    Hi Graham,
    Hope you like this one. Chester 1826.
    The next one I will wait a bit-very nice London STR by DUMPER. You will find it in Loomes but the info is from this watch. It seems to be a one off. Till later,
    Allan.

  9. #24
    Registered User Allan C. Purcell's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    305
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default Re: Early Single Table Roller Escapements (By: Allan C. Purcell)

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	2016-08-07 15.07.19.jpg 
Views:	8 
Size:	162.5 KB 
ID:	312096Click image for larger version. 

Name:	2016-08-07 15.07.56.jpg 
Views:	7 
Size:	213.5 KB 
ID:	312097Click image for larger version. 

Name:	2016-08-07 15.08.34.jpg 
Views:	26 
Size:	253.6 KB 
ID:	312098Click image for larger version. 

Name:	2016-08-07 15.09.38.jpg 
Views:	13 
Size:	356.5 KB 
ID:	312099Click image for larger version. 

Name:	2016-08-07 15.10.42.jpg 
Views:	12 
Size:	195.9 KB 
ID:	312100Click image for larger version. 

Name:	2016-08-07 15.11.17.jpg 
Views:	7 
Size:	132.6 KB 
ID:	312101
    Hi Graham,

    This is the last of my STR´s before 1830. DUMPER of LONDON it´s the only watch I have seen by this watchmaker-that is if he was a watchmaker. I can find nothing in directories for him. or in any of the many books on horology. There is just the one entry in Loomes, but has I said it came from this watch. All I can say is it is very well made with thick plates like a pocket chronometer. Still keeps time to a few seconds per day, and that in my waistcoat pocket.

    I hope now few members will post early cased STR watches. Please only ones that they are sure of in their mind, are all original. Many of this type of watch were exported to America, so the chance´s are greater of finding them.

    Best wishes to all,

    Allan.

  10. #25
    Registered User gmorse's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Breamore, Hampshire, UK
    Posts
    7,038
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default Re: Early Single Table Roller Escapements (By: Allan C. Purcell)

    Hi Allan,

    Quote Originally Posted by Allan C. Purcell View Post
    ...I hope now few members will post early cased STR watches. Please only ones that they are sure of in their mind, are all original. Many of this type of watch were exported to America, so the chance´s are greater of finding them...
    Thanks for posting these. The drawback to looking for American examples is the difficulty of accurate dating if, as was often the way, the bare movements were exported from the UK and cased locally on arrival. I believe that there are more examples out there dating from much closer to 1820 or even possibly before.

    Regards,

    Graham

    "Ut tensio, sic vis" - Robert Hooke

  11. #26
    Registered User Allan C. Purcell's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    305
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default Re: Early Single Table Roller Escapements (By: gmorse)

    Hi Graham,
    I do hope you are right, I would love to see a genuine STR before 1820, I am always suspisious of watches claiming to be STR before 1820. People who claime this never explain why the makers they name were still making and using Massey ecscapements into the eighteen 30´s. Massey one and Massey two are still very rare for 1818, watches with Massey before that you can count on one hand. Richard Hornby was still experimenting with the Lever in the eighteen forties,ie: the so called Hornby escapement. I have watches by RH from 1821 but they are Massey three, and I find that early, but never a STR. at that time. Maybe it was the other Liverpool Richard Hornby?

    Regards,

    Allan.

  12. #27
    Registered User gmorse's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Breamore, Hampshire, UK
    Posts
    7,038
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default Re: Early Single Table Roller Escapements (By: Allan C. Purcell)

    Hi Allan,

    The problem of identifying conversions versus original fitments is a knotty one; as I mentioned in an earlier post:

    ...It can be difficult to say whether a watch is a conversion, in the light of the practice of the frame makers of planting the train with oversized pivots, the holes for which were then plugged and properly depthed after the arbors were finally pivoted during finishing. Signs of these large plugs can cause confusion!...
    In the absence of extra plugged holes or unnecessary cut-outs, the verdict can sometimes simply come down to whether the top plate has been re-gilt after a possible re-configuring, and significantly, the date when such work might have been done.

    Regards,

    Graham

    "Ut tensio, sic vis" - Robert Hooke

  13. #28
    Registered User Allan C. Purcell's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    305
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default Re: Early Single Table Roller Escapements (By: gmorse)

    Hi Graham,
    Again I agree, And I think you know more about the isides of a watch than me. No, I know you know more. Though there is more than one way to skin a cat has they say. I dont usually buy movements but saw the attached on Ebay. James Mann Norwich. Loomes says he died in 1822. Now nothing to say about Jas. Mann he was probably a good watchmaker tought by his father, but I feel he bought this one in from London. It was probably in a gold case, the dial too as it is also missing. My thoughts were I had a STR c1822 or maybe a little earlier??Click image for larger version. 

Name:	2016-08-09 15.51.09.jpg 
Views:	28 
Size:	197.0 KB 
ID:	312119Click image for larger version. 

Name:	2016-08-09 15.51.01.jpg 
Views:	10 
Size:	187.1 KB 
ID:	312120Click image for larger version. 

Name:	2016-08-09 15.51.24.jpg 
Views:	9 
Size:	219.9 KB 
ID:	312121Click image for larger version. 

Name:	2016-08-09 15.51.58.jpg 
Views:	16 
Size:	180.2 KB 
ID:	312122Click image for larger version. 

Name:	2016-08-09 15.52.33.jpg 
Views:	15 
Size:	153.2 KB 
ID:	312123Click image for larger version. 

Name:	2016-08-09 15.52.41.jpg 
Views:	25 
Size:	167.8 KB 
ID:	312124Click image for larger version. 

Name:	2016-08-09 15.53.05.jpg 
Views:	15 
Size:	200.5 KB 
ID:	312125Click image for larger version. 

Name:	2016-08-09 15.54.15.jpg 
Views:	8 
Size:	167.4 KB 
ID:	312126
    Thanks again,
    Allan.

  14. #29
    Registered User gmorse's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Breamore, Hampshire, UK
    Posts
    7,038
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default Re: Early Single Table Roller Escapements (By: Allan C. Purcell)

    Hi Allan,

    A good quality movement, with endstones on the escape. Wherever it was actually made, it certainly wasn't Norwich; it's a pity that there's no clear frame maker's mark, just the size. However, could that mark to the left of the size possibly be part of an "M"?

    Regards,

    Graham

    "Ut tensio, sic vis" - Robert Hooke

  15. #30

    Default Re: Josh Johnson (By: gmorse)

    Hi Graham, how about a photo of what exactly an "Early Single Table Roller Escapement" is? There seem to be a lot of variations about the time period in discussion? Regards Ray

Similar Threads

  1. Identification of early Hebdomas table watch
    By rivas7200 in forum European & Other Pocket Watches
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 09-21-2016, 11:07 AM
  2. So When was a Double Roller Escapement Really Required?
    By Kent in forum American Pocket Watches
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 10-26-2015, 07:11 AM
  3. Early versus Late Earnshaw Escapements
    By Dr. Jon in forum Clocks General.
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 08-03-2006, 03:11 PM
  4. 18s Ham Ball 17j marked single roller
    By George Davis in forum American Pocket Watches
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: 09-20-2005, 01:49 AM
  5. American Pocket Watch Roller Table (DR) for 16S Keystone-Howard
    By HenryB in forum Watch Repair
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 01-28-2004, 01:40 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •