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  1. #16

    Default Re: What time is it...? (By: RJSoftware)

    Quote Originally Posted by RJSoftware View Post
    Hey Ralph. From what I read (I think) the quartz crystal is made in the shape of a tiny tuning fork.
    RJ

    Here are some images...

    https://www.google.com/search?q=quartz+crystal+oscillator+internal+struct ure&biw=1138&bih=471&source=lnms&tbm=isch&
    sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiMwrD7o6vOAhWJ6yYKHWJlAHsQ_AUIBigB

    Ralph

  2. #17
    Registered user. MartinM's Avatar
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    Default Re: What time is it...? (By: Ralph)

    The Bulova Accutron did actually have a 'tuning fork'.
    They had commercials showing it on TV for years.
    That's probably what's confusing the issue around quartz oscillators.
    http://www.decadecounter.com/accutron/history.htm
    Living life at eight beats per minute.

  3. #18

    Default Re: What time is it...? (By: MartinM)

    Quote Originally Posted by MartinM View Post
    The Bulova Accutron did actually have a 'tuning fork'.
    They had commercials showing it on TV for years.
    That's probably what's confusing the issue around quartz oscillators.
    http://www.decadecounter.com/accutron/history.htm
    No, it really isn't. The tuning fork shape was used for the crystals

    Click image for larger version. 

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    (creative commons image https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...Tuningfork.jpg )
    Nick, lots to learn, late starter.

  4. #19
    Registered user. MartinM's Avatar
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    Default Re: What time is it...? (By: novicetimekeeper)

    The T6 and T8 packages are popular for watch construction. But, the overwhelming majority of crystal oscillators are of the rectangular or circular disc variety.
    Living life at eight beats per minute.

  5. #20

    Default Re: What time is it...? (By: MartinM)

    Quote Originally Posted by MartinM View Post
    The T6 and T8 packages are popular for watch construction. But, the overwhelming majority of crystal oscillators are of the rectangular or circular disc variety.
    Presumably much easier to make, but I was pointing out that RJ was correct about the use of tuning fork shaped crystals.
    Nick, lots to learn, late starter.

  6. #21

    Default Re: What time is it...? (By: Ralph)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ralph View Post
    Your canister has a quartz crystal in it, not a tuning fork. It has piezoelectric properties. Basically, if you a squeeze or stress the crystal it will generate electricity. If you apply a voltage to it, it will resonate at some frequency mostly determined by it's size and shape.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crystal_oscillator

    Ralph
    Yes; this effect is sometimes known as the Curie effect- it was discovered by Pierre Curie, Marie's husband. It states that when a voltage is applied to a crystal in a certain direction, the crystal expands. And when a force is applied, a voltage is generated. This is analogous to the way electromagnetic waves propagate, and the Curie effect produces a sound wave in the crystal. This compressive wave reflects from the edges of the crystal, and causes a resonance like that in a flute. The crystal with its electrodes is included as part of an electronic oscillator, and the crystal's resonate frequency determines the circuit's frequency. The resonate frequency (or frequencies- there might be several modes of vibration) is determined by the dimensions of the crystal, but also by its stiffness, or Young's modulus. Both of these are affected by temperature (as the watch guys know only too well!) The total effect might vary with temperature in a rather complicated way.


    Thanks for the link, Harold; I liked the music, even if the science was hogwash.

    RJ: did you ever change the battery?

  7. #22
    Registered user. kinsler33's Avatar
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    Default Re: What time is it...? (By: Bill Ward)

    The problem with watch crystals is that 32,768 cycles per second is an exceedingly low frequency for a quartz crystal oscillator, which normally like to work in the millions of cycles per second. Hence they've made these weird tuning-fork crystal shapes. Otherwise, you'd need a crystal that's really thin and floppy and thus prone to breakage. Indeed, most quartz crystals are tiny square things.

    I'm also not sure that the quartz crystals in clocks are actually quartz: I think they may be another piezo-electric compound known as barium titanate.

    They sure make an amazing clock, in any event.

    M Kinsler
    512 East Mulberry Street; Lancaster, Ohio USA 740-503-1973; kinsler33@gmail.com
    http://www.lancastereaglegazette.com/search/kinsler/

  8. #23
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    Default Re: What time is it...? (By: kinsler33)

    No, they are made of quartz.
    You are right about the shape. It is just to get it to
    resonate at a low frequency.
    Even the high frequency crystals are mechanically
    vibrating.
    It is unlikely that the frequency of the crystal is changing by
    5 minutes a day.
    It is more likely that the chip that divides the 32768 Hz to
    1 Hz is at fault or even that the stepper motor is over shooting
    and making two steps.
    It could even be battery issue but I'm not sure how it would
    do that.
    ( Sink hole are caused by water. Most in cities are caused by
    broken pipes. The rest are caused by changes in levels of the water
    tables and changes in acidity of rain water. ( remember the increase
    in CO2 ))
    Tinker Dwight

  9. #24

    Default Re: What time is it...? (By: MartinM)

    Hey RJ...
    Study up on sunspot activity, effects of solar rays, (which are more than just rays of light...)
    There may have been a sun spot event on the day you are referring to.
    Dave.

  10. #25

    Default Re: What time is it...? (By: PWfanatik)

    Quote Originally Posted by PWfanatik View Post
    Hey RJ...
    Study up on sunspot activity, effects of solar rays, (which are more than just rays of light...)
    There may have been a sun spot event on the day you are referring to.
    Dave.
    Isn't sunspot activity supposed to reduce the cosmic ray activity?
    Nick, lots to learn, late starter.

  11. #26

    Default Re: What time is it...? (By: novicetimekeeper)

    Novice,
    I am not sure I was just dropping a pebble in the pond of thought for RJ...
    The only thing I am sure of in this life is the difference between me and Genius :P

  12. #27

    Default Re: What time is it...? (By: PWfanatik)

    Quote Originally Posted by PWfanatik View Post
    Novice,
    I am not sure I was just dropping a pebble in the pond of thought for RJ...
    The only thing I am sure of in this life is the difference between me and Genius :P
    I read it somewhere. I have 25 years of background radiation check records at work, I need somebody keen on handling data sets to compare that with sunspot activity.
    Nick, lots to learn, late starter.

  13. #28
    Registered user. RJSoftware's Avatar
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    Default Re: What time is it...? (By: Bill Ward)

    Hey Bill. Sorry I did not reply sooner. I have tried a couple of batteries, now it is stopping on occasion. Might be something like a small particle or in need of cleaning. I did the lighter fluid bath trick with mild hair dryer finish and it worked well for a few hours then quit again. Seems now more like a poor power connection. Sometimes it hesitates to start a second or so when crown fully in. But it still stops. I have other Timex indiglow movements with day and date so I might just swap them out easy. I have too much work to fiddle with it but have had it for years and it's been the "good ol watch". Thing about the Timex indiglo is, when you wake up at night and wonder what dang time it is, all you got to do is hit the button. Don't have to get up out of bed and turn on the light and focus. Etc... it means allot to me hey.

    RJ

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Ward View Post
    Yes; this effect is sometimes known as the Curie effect- it was discovered by Pierre Curie, Marie's husband. It states that when a voltage is applied to a crystal in a certain direction, the crystal expands. And when a force is applied, a voltage is generated. This is analogous to the way electromagnetic waves propagate, and the Curie effect produces a sound wave in the crystal. This compressive wave reflects from the edges of the crystal, and causes a resonance like that in a flute. The crystal with its electrodes is included as part of an electronic oscillator, and the crystal's resonate frequency determines the circuit's frequency. The resonate frequency (or frequencies- there might be several modes of vibration) is determined by the dimensions of the crystal, but also by its stiffness, or Young's modulus. Both of these are affected by temperature (as the watch guys know only too well!) The total effect might vary with temperature in a rather complicated way.


    Thanks for the link, Harold; I liked the music, even if the science was hogwash.

    RJ: did you ever change the battery?
    Good clocks always know the time, that's what they tell.

    Bad clocks get glued with macaroni, in Steampunk Hell.

    Ahh, the crunchy sound of victory https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NGaVUApDVuY

  14. #29
    Registered user. RJSoftware's Avatar
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    Default Re: What time is it...? (By: RJSoftware)

    Well, my Timex is working great again. Just a different battery. I got a bunch of batteries cheap at the flea market, so probably went through a few bad ones.
    Last edited by MartyR; 09-28-2016 at 10:52 AM. Reason: Removal of political discussion
    Good clocks always know the time, that's what they tell.

    Bad clocks get glued with macaroni, in Steampunk Hell.

    Ahh, the crunchy sound of victory https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NGaVUApDVuY

  15. #30
    Registered user. kinsler33's Avatar
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    Default Re: What time is it...? (By: RJSoftware)

    Quote Originally Posted by RJSoftware View Post
    Well, my Timex is working great again. Just a different battery. I got a bunch of batteries cheap at the flea market, so probably went through a few bad ones.

    Well I watched the big debate yesterday online. I don't have TV or satellite anymore. I just do the Netflix, Hulu and wifi. Saves money big time every month.

    RJ
    Did Thomas Tompion debate Jacques Breuget?

    M Kinsler
    512 East Mulberry Street; Lancaster, Ohio USA 740-503-1973; kinsler33@gmail.com
    http://www.lancastereaglegazette.com/search/kinsler/

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