Goal: $300, Received: $165.00 (55%) Contribute Now
Donate whatever you can or Join the 14,000 other NAWCC members for only $80 (plus $10 for hard copy publications). Check it out here.




NOTICE Notice: This is an old thread. The last post was 401 days ago. If your post is not directly related to this discussion please consider making a new thread.
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 19
  1. #1
    Registered user. gleber's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Location
    Downingtown, Pennsylvania USA
    Posts
    676
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default Black Forest Shield Sharpie Numerals

    I just picked this up today. Does anyone have any suggestions on how to remove the Sharpie numbers. They are quite poorly done as you can see. I'm hoping there is some solvent that would only remove the ink.

    More photos of the whole clock in the Latest Acquisition section.
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	20160620_203710.jpg 
Views:	32 
Size:	1.73 MB 
ID:	307280

    Thanks,
    Tom

  2. #2

    Default Re: Black Forest Shield Sharpie Numerals (By: gleber)

    I use ethanol to remove permanent marker at work but you need to try it on an edge to make sure it doesn't soften the paint. I don't think it will remove it all though as it will probably be deep in the paint but it would remove the surface.

    Ethanol isn't much of a solvent so it is worth a try.
    Nick, lots to learn, late starter.

  3. #3
    Registered user. gleber's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Location
    Downingtown, Pennsylvania USA
    Posts
    676
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default Re: Black Forest Shield Sharpie Numerals (By: novicetimekeeper)

    Thanks Novice,

    I don't have any Ethanol, but I experimented with some Isopropyl, and it doesn't take too much elbow grease to clean up. I was surprised - it came off easier than expected and exposed white numbers underneath. I did notice faded white quarter hour numbers, but didn't expect the hours to be white.

    Tom

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	20160621_182228.jpg 
Views:	21 
Size:	746.5 KB 
ID:	307367

  4. #4
    Moderator leeinv66's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Launceston Tasmania
    Posts
    7,889
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default Re: Black Forest Shield Sharpie Numerals (By: gleber)

    The white numerals are the shadow left once all the paint from the original numerals has been removed. Is that what you intended to do?
    Cheers
    Peter R Lee: AKA (Pee-Tah) from Australia

  5. #5
    Registered user. gleber's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Location
    Downingtown, Pennsylvania USA
    Posts
    676
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default Re: Black Forest Shield Sharpie Numerals (By: leeinv66)

    Possibly a good point, but I only see signs of Sharpie, no paint (so I don't think I removed any). The black Sharpie was poorly done and doesn't even come close to matching the white outline. Would the quarter hour numbers have been black? I can see a faint outline of white, but no sign of black on any of them. You can see the 30 in the photo above. That is what i was basing my comments on. It doesn't look like it ever had black? Or, if it did, it seems like it was completely gone before the Sharpie was applied by a former owner.

    Thanks,
    Tom

  6. #6

    Default Re: Black Forest Shield Sharpie Numerals (By: gleber)

    Methylated spirits is mainly ethanol so that works just as well, just smells bad.

    Glad it worked, now you need to repaint the numbers. It's a skilled job, I'd need to get somebody else to do it!
    Nick, lots to learn, late starter.

  7. #7
    Moderator leeinv66's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Launceston Tasmania
    Posts
    7,889
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default Re: Black Forest Shield Sharpie Numerals (By: novicetimekeeper)

    Tom, I have seen many, many of these shield clocks and I have never seen one with white numerals. What you have left is where they stencilled on the outline of the numerals. They then filled those in with black paint that was applied with a brush.
    Cheers
    Peter R Lee: AKA (Pee-Tah) from Australia

  8. #8
    Registered user. gleber's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Location
    Downingtown, Pennsylvania USA
    Posts
    676
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default Re: Black Forest Shield Sharpie Numerals (By: novicetimekeeper)

    Quote Originally Posted by novicetimekeeper View Post
    Methylated spirits is mainly ethanol so that works just as well, just smells bad.

    Glad it worked, now you need to repaint the numbers. It's a skilled job, I'd need to get somebody else to do it!
    I am working on my skills and am sort of looking forward to this challenge.

    Tom

  9. #9
    Registered user. gleber's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Location
    Downingtown, Pennsylvania USA
    Posts
    676
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default Re: Black Forest Shield Sharpie Numerals (By: leeinv66)

    Quote Originally Posted by leeinv66 View Post
    Tom, I have seen many, many of these shield clocks and I have never seen one with white numerals. What you have left is where they stencilled on the outline of the numerals. They then filled those in with black paint that was applied with a brush.
    Yes, that makes sense and I agree, but I wonder where the original black paint went? I can't find any signs of it. I'm not sure if you can see it, but the white outline is visible along the sides of the numeral II in this close up. And the quarter hours numbers that were not Sharpied don't have any signs of black. I'm not doubting you, but it's as if they cleaned the original paint off (and did a good job) before applying the Sharpie (poorly)?

    Tom

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	20160622_080245.jpg 
Views:	11 
Size:	540.6 KB 
ID:	307389

  10. #10
    Registered user.
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Calif. USA
    Posts
    13,623

    Default Re: Black Forest Shield Sharpie Numerals (By: gleber)

    The white is the original color of the shield. It had been
    protected by the original numbers from light for many years.
    The original were most likely some form of India ink that
    the binder had failed over the years and washed off.
    The numerals may even be raised a little as the original
    shield white oxidized and wore off.
    Tinker Dwight

  11. #11
    Registered user. MartinM's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    El Dorado, CA
    Posts
    2,285

    Default Re: Black Forest Shield Sharpie Numerals (By: Tinker Dwight)

    Yes. It seems pretty obvious that some easily removable (likely, water-based) paint or ink was originally used for the numbers and applied over the more durable white paint. It makes sense, really; As, if you were applying the numbers, originally, and there was some kind of a slip, you'd benefit from the ability to wipe off the error and start, again. I'd bet that they just didn't apply any seizing to the finished product to set the numbers.
    I doubt is was a simple failure of the original paint/ink, as there would be more examples out there of clocks with white numbers due simply to time.
    Living life at eight beats per minute.

  12. #12
    Registered user. gleber's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Location
    Downingtown, Pennsylvania USA
    Posts
    676
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default Re: Black Forest Shield Sharpie Numerals (By: gleber)

    Thanks for the good info guys. It does look like the white is raised a bit over the background. So with all of your help, the conclusion seems to be the dial had black numbers that wore of completely, and then someone came along with a Sharpie and only did the hours.

    Does anyone know of any dial painting tutorials?

    Tom

  13. #13
    Registered user.
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    sydney Australia
    Posts
    1,840

    Default Re: Black Forest Shield Sharpie Numerals (By: MartinM)

    When I clean a white dial prior to redoing the numerals, that's what you see, an outline of the original numerals, generally the ink yellows the white paint which is good because I can work out what the original lettering and numerals look like.

    Roman numerals are the easiest to do, use drafting ink pens, rulers and compasses, draw the outlines first then fill them in.


    This particular dial was real bad, the paint was flaking off the metal(tin), took 2 minutes to scrape the old paint off, after etch primer and acrylic lacquer I used the stencil I made, the result is as close to the original I could get.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	20140801_145838.jpg 
Views:	14 
Size:	261.4 KB 
ID:	307426Click image for larger version. 

Name:	20140801_153207.jpg 
Views:	13 
Size:	157.8 KB 
ID:	307427Click image for larger version. 

Name:	20140803_124245.jpg 
Views:	14 
Size:	135.0 KB 
ID:	307428Click image for larger version. 

Name:	20140803_124319.jpg 
Views:	14 
Size:	116.2 KB 
ID:	307429Click image for larger version. 

Name:	20140803_154819.jpg 
Views:	15 
Size:	150.9 KB 
ID:	307430Click image for larger version. 

Name:	20140805_124121.jpg 
Views:	16 
Size:	170.3 KB 
ID:	307431Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMG_20140809_102533.jpg 
Views:	21 
Size:	680.5 KB 
ID:	307432
    Last edited by dAz57; 06-22-2016 at 07:30 PM.

  14. #14
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    162

    Default Re: Black Forest Shield Sharpie Numerals (By: gleber)

    The August 1988 Bulletin, page 298, has an article by James B. West called "Let's Paint a Dial" in which he describes the steps for painting a dial. I think the article should give you an idea of what's involved and how to get started. There is also an online video called "The Art of the Painted Dial" by M.F. Tennant (591D). You'll have to be logged on to the NAWCC website to view this video that provides a great overview of restoring a white painted dial.

    Just a couple of sources that might help provide some background.

  15. #15
    Registered user. gleber's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Location
    Downingtown, Pennsylvania USA
    Posts
    676
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default Re: Black Forest Shield Sharpie Numerals (By: PatH)

    I cleaned off the numbers and reapplied them. I didn't want to paint them completely opaque since the artwork is faded and I am probably not going go through the expense of having that professionally redone. I used a black ball point pen and outlined them and then added a hatch pattern. I like the overall look, but might go back and darken it just a bit more. I found the ball point pen didn't cover completely opaque and it preserves the well worn look. What do you think?

    Tom

    Before Click image for larger version. 

Name:	20160620_203710.jpg 
Views:	18 
Size:	1.73 MB 
ID:	309178



    After Click image for larger version. 

Name:	20160710_115720.jpg 
Views:	25 
Size:	666.5 KB 
ID:	309177

Similar Threads

  1. Black Forest Shield Clock
    By gleber in forum Your Newest Clock Acquisition
    Replies: 51
    Last Post: 01-21-2017, 08:01 AM
  2. Replies: 7
    Last Post: 06-20-2016, 08:12 PM
  3. Black Forest Shield Clock
    By gozoish in forum Clocks General.
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 03-18-2016, 06:30 AM
  4. Replies: 7
    Last Post: 07-13-2012, 07:20 PM
  5. A Rare Black Forest Shield Automaton of a Butcher "Metzgeruhr"
    By BLACK FOREST CLOCKS in forum Your Newest Clock Acquisition
    Replies: 14
    Last Post: 03-14-2011, 05:56 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •