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  1. #1

    Default first fusee movement: several questions

    just got my first fusee movement clock... they're very cool.

    here are my questions:

    - the time works seem to spin way too freely. there's a canoe washer that doesn't seem to be connected to (or touching) anything but the arbor. should the arms be re-bent to apply a little pressure to the time works?

    - it came without hands. it looks to me like the minute hand goes on the central arbor (with squared edges) and the hole in the hour hand would fit around the 7.64 mm raised/shoulder area with the cut-out/indentation. is that correct?

    - i think i understand about pre-loading the mainspring with a wind or two... can someone summarize the why and how of that? also... is there a way to let it down safely without waiting eight days for it to run down?

    - any recommendations on replacement hands?

    - although i haven't stripped it down and cleaned it yet, it's running along merrily... although the total arc left-to-right of the bottom of the threaded regulating rod is maybe 5/8". is that typical? drops and locks look (and sound) reasonable and even.

    thx,
    smike



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    Last edited by Bill Stuntz; 06-06-2016 at 03:22 PM. Reason: Reduced image size to reduce scrolling.
    i collect antique clocks because i get all that extra time...

  2. #2
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    Default Re: first fusee movement: several questions (By: smike)

    Hi Smike
    The threaded hole you have labelled as an hour set screw is to take a tiny screw to hold on and in place the hour hand, which means you have to be aware of the position of the canon when you assemble the motion work so the hand points cleanlyto a number. You can't slide the hand around afterwards. Your "canoe" washer tensions against the minute hand canon when you putin a pin to hold the hand. The minute hand fits overthe square. The washer is the "clutch" that allows you to change thetime. I think that slot is just some metal that has worn away from the wall.
    David
    Last edited by daveR; 05-20-2016 at 02:41 AM. Reason: extra info.

  3. #3

    Default Re: first fusee movement: several questions (By: daveR)

    Quote Originally Posted by daveR View Post
    Hi Smike
    The threaded hole you have labelled as an hour set screw is to take a tiny screw to hold on and in place the hour hand, which means you have to be aware of the position of the canon when you assemble the motion work so the hand points cleanlyto a number. You can't slide the hand around afterwards. Your "canoe" washer tensions against the minute hand canon when you putin a pin to hold the hand. The minute hand fits overthe square. The washer is the "clutch" that allows you to change thetime. I think that slot is just some metal that has worn away from the wall.
    David
    I've seen it suggested on these boards that the screw to hold the hands dates back to the 17th century on English clocks. I don't believe this.

    I think the screws appeared as a repair when the locating lugs/hands wore (or the lug fell out) and the hands became loose. I don't know how old this clock is but perhaps the slot was the original method of locating the hand and the screw added when the slot became worn.
    Nick, lots to learn, late starter.

  4. #4

    Default Re: first fusee movement: several questions (By: novicetimekeeper)

    Smike asks about the fusee: "- i think i understand about pre-loading the mainspring with a wind or two... can someone summarize the why and how of that?"

    The "initial pre-load" is simply an arbitrary adjustment of the mainspring based on experience and practice by "crusty old clock-smiths."


    Proper adjustment of the mainspring click requires a sturdy movement holder, a long lever with the proper socket square to fit the fusee arbor and an an adjustable weight fitted to the long lever or a spring scale to measure the strength of the mainspring as it is compensated by the fusee. The process assumes that the fusee taper was cut to be used with the then available mainsprings.

    Basically, with the verge removed so that the works may be controlled manually, and the mainspring ratchet set for minimal initial strength, the fully unwound strength and fully wound strengths are evaluated at the fusee arbor and recorded. Next, the mainspring ratchet is reset for a higher strength and again the force measurements are made and recorded. The process is repeated with the objective being to discover a setting of the mainspring ratchet that reveals the most linear strength portion of the mainspring's length. The adjustment provides for a relatively even operating force to the escapement during and eight-day operation of the timepiece.

    Of course, the mainspring must have been cleaned and lubricated prior to the evaluation and adjustment process. Servicing these long and forceful mainsprings requires some heavy equipment and due caution.




    Last edited by eskmill; 05-20-2016 at 02:48 PM. Reason: Add a word or two
    H.J. (Les) Lesovsky, Alhambra California

  5. #5

    Default Re: first fusee movement: several questions (By: eskmill)

    I think I prefer mine 'crusty'! 8-)

    the only part that I'm still not clear on is... once the movement has run down completely, how do I let down the still-existing (yes?) pre-load for disassembly and cleaning?

    and, what I really meant when I said "the only part" was in reference to that only that last sentence… 8-)

    another question would be should/can I use regular mainspring oil on the chain once cleaned? Or nye? or horolube?

    smike
    i collect antique clocks because i get all that extra time...

  6. #6

    Default Re: first fusee movement: several questions (By: smike)

    Smike asks in part: "......should/can I use regular mainspring oil on the chain once cleaned? Or nye? or horolube?"

    Use the lubricant of your choice or follow the advice of experts when selecting oils.
    :cyclops:

    That said; ultrasonic cleaning the fusee chain is done at your own risk !
    The example I cleaned in the US was mostly held together with accumulated dirt.
    H.J. (Les) Lesovsky, Alhambra California

  7. #7

    Default Re: first fusee movement: several questions (By: eskmill)

    Quote Originally Posted by eskmill View Post
    That said; ultrasonic cleaning the fusee chain is done at your own risk ! The example I cleaned in the US was mostly held together with accumulated dirt.

    yipes... good to know. so... what IS the recommended method for cleaning a fusee chain? degreaser, wash and dry, re-lubricate?

    also... maybe i'm being a dork, but once the movement runs down all the way, i'm still confused about how to let down the final bit of mainspring tension for disassembly... ?

    thx,
    smike
    i collect antique clocks because i get all that extra time...

  8. #8
    Registered User gmorse's Avatar
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    Default Re: first fusee movement: several questions (By: smike)

    Hi smike,

    Quote Originally Posted by smike View Post
    ... but once the movement runs down all the way, i'm still confused about how to let down the final bit of mainspring tension for disassembly... ?
    The barrel arbor will have a ratchet wheel squared on to it, so hold that square in a large pin vice or other appropriate tool and then loosen the click and let down the remaining tension. There should be enough of the square to hold, because it has to be used to put the pre-tension back on when it's reassembled.

    Regards,

    Graham

    "Ut tensio, sic vis" - Robert Hooke

  9. #9

    Default Re: first fusee movement: several questions (By: gmorse)

    thx... I guess I got nervous from (I think) shutterbug mentioning in another fusee thread that fusee springs were very strong, w/ multiple warnings... if it's only a turn or two remaining it should be ok to let down normally









    Quote Originally Posted by gmorse View Post
    Hi smike,



    The barrel arbor will have a ratchet wheel squared on to it, so hold that square in a large pin vice or other appropriate tool and then loosen the click and let down the remaining tension. There should be enough of the square to hold, because it has to be used to put the pre-tension back on when it's reassembled.

    Regards,

    Graham
    i collect antique clocks because i get all that extra time...

  10. #10

    Default Re: first fusee movement: several questions (By: novicetimekeeper)

    Quote Originally Posted by novicetimekeeper View Post
    I've seen it suggested on these boards that the screw to hold the hands dates back to the 17th century on English clocks. I don't believe this.

    I think the screws appeared as a repair when the locating lugs/hands wore (or the lug fell out) and the hands became loose. I don't know how old this clock is but perhaps the slot was the original method of locating the hand and the screw added when the slot became worn.
    Can you elaborate on "locating lugs"? What kind of repair? John Robey, in his Longcase Reference tome, clearly states these screws are one way used to hold hands on. No mention of repair or lugs. The same method(s) used on longcases were used on spring clocks.

    Is your comment only in regards to when the use of a screw started?

    Ralph

  11. #11

    Default Re: first fusee movement: several questions (By: Ralph)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ralph View Post
    Can you elaborate on "locating lugs"? What kind of repair? John Robey, in his Longcase Reference tome, clearly states these screws are one way used to hold hands on. No mention of repair or lugs. The same method(s) used on longcases were used on spring clocks.

    Is your comment only in regards to when the use of a screw started?

    Ralph
    Yes, I think that screws were used as a later system and as a repair to earlier clocks when wear resulted in a loose hand. Smike has not given any indication of the age of his clock.

    The little upstand with the pin that should be there on many clocks to hold the hand and stop it rotating on its own can be worn off requiring a modification to overcome the loss.

    I've just got my first clock with a screw for the hour hand, a late 19th century painted dial.
    Nick, lots to learn, late starter.

  12. #12

    Default Re: first fusee movement: several questions (By: novicetimekeeper)

    Quote Originally Posted by novicetimekeeper View Post
    Yes, I think that screws were used as a later system and as a repair to earlier clocks when wear resulted in a loose hand. Smike has not given any indication of the age of his clock.
    probably a similar vintage as yours... it says kind county council on the dial and has lcc stamped on the movement
    s
    i collect antique clocks because i get all that extra time...

  13. #13

    Default Re: first fusee movement: several questions (By: smike)

    Quote Originally Posted by smike View Post
    probably a similar vintage as yours... it says kind county council on the dial and has lcc stamped on the movement
    s
    Is it English? Would that be Kent? Pictures of the plates and pillars plus details of case and beszel would help with dating.
    Nick, lots to learn, late starter.

  14. #14
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    Default Re: first fusee movement: several questions (By: smike)

    Quote Originally Posted by smike View Post
    probably a similar vintage as yours... it says kind county council on the dial and has lcc stamped on the movement
    s
    In my dim and very distant childhood everything from school books to lamp posts was stamped LCC. It stood for London County Council. Could it have been stamped on clock movement owned, or at least made for, the LCC?
    I don't think that there are any BIG problems. Just a series of little ones that follow each other like a duck leading her ducklings to water.

  15. #15

    Default Re: first fusee movement: several questions (By: BigAl)

    Quote Originally Posted by BigAl View Post
    In my dim and very distant childhood everything from school books to lamp posts was stamped LCC. It stood for London County Council. Could it have been stamped on clock movement owned, or at least made for, the LCC?
    That seems likely, could be a London Borough. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_County_Council

    However Kent County Council was also formed in 1889

    Either way the clock could be older
    Nick, lots to learn, late starter.

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