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  1. #1

    Default Music Box from Hell

    Hi Everyone,

    Late last year I finished repairing a music box for a fellow chapter member. I started a thread in the Horological Tools forum to show how I wound the springs back into the new barrels I had to make.

    http://mb.nawcc.org/showthread.php?1...-spring-winder

    I just realized that I threatened to post the photos from that project in this forum, sooo...here is the whole story.

    Once upon a time in a land far away, a friend asked if I could make a spring barrel with ratchet teeth and I said yes.

    That was my first mistake.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    I think some person got a hammer for a birthday gift and needed something to try it out on:

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    This last photo actually makes the hammer marks appear better than they are!

    He sent the complete drive assembly to me and when it arrived it was obvious that the second barrel needed replacing also. To be fair, when the assembly is in the box, the gear teeth did not look as bad.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    At our next meeting I picked up the entire box because I was going to have to obtain the correct gear centers to figure out a cutter shape for the gear teeth. The ratchet wasn't as big a problem.

    Here is my daughter cutting those teeth:

    Click image for larger version. 

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    I was busy making arbors to hold the barrel and its pinion in my depth tool. First was the one for the pinion:

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Then it was off to the lathe to turn centers on each end:

    Click image for larger version. 

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    For the barrel, I already had this arbor from another project so all it needed was a bushing:

    Click image for larger version. 

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    More to follow as I am resizing the photos for the web......................
    "To invent you need a good imagination and a pile of junk." - Thomas Edison
    Best wishes to Ya'll. Sincerely, Jim

  2. #2

    Default Re: Music Box from Hell (By: jhe.1973)

    Here the barrel and pinion are setup in my optical comparator at the correct center distance:

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Magnified twenty times, I used this photo at one of our meetings to show the effects of engaging friction as the teeth are so worn that they come together before the center line:

    Click image for larger version. 

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    For any of you that might be interested, I also made a YouTube video to show this detail in motion:

    https://youtu.be/cI2WUDjj1r8

    At our meeting, another friend suggested that the unworn side of the teeth might show proper engagement. He was right!

    Click image for larger version. 

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    This allowed me to use the back side of the tooth and compare it to cutters I already had made. This one is quite close (the unworn side is on top):

    Click image for larger version. 

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    The first operation of turning the barrels was routine but I left the ID undersize (thick walled) so I could clamp them more securely for the milling of the teeth. To finish the bores and turn the barrels I had some aluminum jaws from an old job not longer run, so I bored them to fit:

    Click image for larger version. 

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    To get the correct cutter height to the gear center line I used a planer/shaper gauge set to the right height:

    Click image for larger version. 

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    I intentionally left the OD of the barrel teeth larger so I could get deeper engagement. I felt that one of the reasons the original teeth wore so much was that they were too shallow.

    By cutting the teeth once and then taking two more cuts each side of center by .0025 I was able to duplicate the original profile quite accurately w/o making a new cutter .

    Still more coming as I get more photos sized...........................
    Last edited by jhe.1973; 03-25-2016 at 02:09 PM.
    "To invent you need a good imagination and a pile of junk." - Thomas Edison
    Best wishes to Ya'll. Sincerely, Jim

  3. #3

    Default Re: Music Box from Hell (By: jhe.1973)

    I decided to design a slightly different Geneva stop because one was snapped off and the other the depth was not very good! So, the first step was to weld up the broken one to create a new tab:

    Click image for larger version. 

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    This setup is how I back purge certain weld to prevent oxygen contamination from the back as I weld from the front.

    Next was to file and polish it to shape:

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    Here is the old one on the top and new one on the bottom:

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Then weld and finish the second one the same way:

    Click image for larger version. 

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    By mounting an index fixture on a rotary table, I could do all of the machining in one setup:

    Click image for larger version. 

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    And then slice them off:

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    Only two more months left of photos still coming!
    "To invent you need a good imagination and a pile of junk." - Thomas Edison
    Best wishes to Ya'll. Sincerely, Jim

  4. #4

    Default Re: Music Box from Hell (By: jhe.1973)

    To get the correct center distance and verify my CAD drawing before I drilled the hole in the barrel, I set both parts up in my mill so could use the DRO:

    Attachment 297381

    And check the entire rotation:

    Attachment 297382

    For the counterbore I don't have my 8mm faceplate adapted to my 10mm lathe yet, sooooo I had to come up with another way to hold it. First I clamped it to a drill bushing on a setup block I have:

    Attachment 297384

    Then, clamping it with an aluminum clamp I rigged up, I could remove the previous screw:

    Attachment 297388

    This two step process assured that the brass was held flat while I tightened the aluminum clamp (no tipping please)

    Then I could reach through the hole to line up the part:

    Attachment 297389

    A quick plunge w/an endmill and:

    Attachment 297390

    All done:

    Attachment 297391

    Still more on the way...................
    "To invent you need a good imagination and a pile of junk." - Thomas Edison
    Best wishes to Ya'll. Sincerely, Jim

  5. #5

    Default Re: Music Box from Hell (By: jhe.1973)

    These were the steps to make the barrel hooks.

    First, turn up two blanks with the correct shank diameter and enough material for the hook:

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    Then mill the sides:

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    To get these:

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    When making the barrels, I left smaller the bores smaller to allow for a thicker wall and better support. Because I wanted to fit these hooks to the inside curve of the bore, I decided to make a gauge:

    Click image for larger version. 

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    I then cut off just what I needed so I could hold it up to the light and see where I still needed to file as I fit the shape to the curve:

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Finished, the one on the right still has a bit of the marker ink left from my using it as a guide to tell my where to remove metal:

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Next I will show the setup for riveting the hook in place................
    "To invent you need a good imagination and a pile of junk." - Thomas Edison
    Best wishes to Ya'll. Sincerely, Jim

  6. #6

    Default Re: Music Box from Hell (By: jhe.1973)

    Sorry about post number 4. I have no idea of what happened. The photos showed up just fine on my screen each time I checked and now it will not let me edit the post!
    "To invent you need a good imagination and a pile of junk." - Thomas Edison
    Best wishes to Ya'll. Sincerely, Jim

  7. #7

    Default Re: Music Box from Hell (By: jhe.1973)

    I took as large a piece of steel bar stock that would fit inside the barrel and still clear all the way around. I did not what it to be such a close fit that the vibration from riveting would mar the bore. As you can see I also cut a small flat to hold the hook in place and give it a flat. total support along its bottom surface:

    Click image for larger version. 

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    My wife held down on the barrel while I worked around the rim of the hook's shank with a flat punch and hammer. This gave me maximum control and kept me from whacking the brass by mistake.

    These hooks are made of O1 tool steel and I gradually peened them a little bit at a time, working around the rim of the shank constantly. I did not what to try spreading the metal all at once and risk splitting the shank.

    In the lathe for skimming the rivet heads down to almost touching the brass:

    Click image for larger version. 

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    The last couple of thousandths of an inch are taken down very carefully by hand with very fine silicon carbide paper backed up with a piece of steel. Then they were polished:

    Click image for larger version. 

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    I knew I had a better shot to show the extent of the hammer marks & I just came across it in the wrong folder:

    Click image for larger version. 

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    I think my barrels look better, but you never know..................

    The hammer artist must not have wanted the covers to feel left out, so he/she made sure to give them the same treatment. The soft jaws came in handy here too as I was able to polish out most, but not all of the blemishes.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    When the barrels are assembled, they fit together close enough that the blemishes are not noticeable:

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Still not quite done.......................
    "To invent you need a good imagination and a pile of junk." - Thomas Edison
    Best wishes to Ya'll. Sincerely, Jim

  8. #8

    Default Re: Music Box from Hell (By: jhe.1973)

    This gear is at the opposite end of the cylinder and the cam moves the cylinder a tiny bit for each of the 12 tunes. The gear was actually bent outward at this cam from all the years of being hammered slightly when after the 12th tune, the cylinder snapped all the way back to the start position:

    Click image for larger version. 

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    The above gear drives the governor which also did not escape the hammer - or at least a very heavy hand:

    Click image for larger version. 

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    That side plate (on top above) is supposed to be straight and is bent in two planes. The spring now on top is broken also.

    Another view:

    Click image for larger version. 

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    The repaired governor with a new spring fitted over the old stub - in case wants to recreate the original someday.:cyclops:

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Finished and with the winding crank out of the way to show the deeper engagement of the barrel to pinion:

    Click image for larger version. 

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    And from the opposite side:

    Click image for larger version. 

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    I am sure that the purists will not like my use of a stainless steel button head screw for the Geneva stops. This was never to be a museum style restoration. It had been so badly damaged from prior 'repairs' that I felt fine taking a few liberties.

    The whole enchilada:

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Believe it or not there was actually more that needed to be repaired, replaced or otherwise adjusted.

    Gee, I wonder what took me so long?

    Last edited by jhe.1973; 03-25-2016 at 05:46 PM. Reason: Make speeling more better & add comment
    "To invent you need a good imagination and a pile of junk." - Thomas Edison
    Best wishes to Ya'll. Sincerely, Jim

  9. #9
    Registered user.
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    Calif. USA
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    Default Re: Music Box from Hell (By: jhe.1973)

    Why would anyone snack it like that with a hammer?
    I can't think of anything that might be improved
    by such smacking.
    Tinker Dwight

  10. #10

    Default Re: Music Box from Hell (By: Tinker Dwight)

    Quote Originally Posted by Tinker Dwight View Post
    Why would anyone snack it like that with a hammer?
    I can't think of anything that might be improved
    by such smacking.
    Tinker Dwight
    Maybe it was the same person that built my house!



    P.S. I just realized that I mixed up the threads I have been posting to, so my above comment might not make any sense - as if I ever make sense!

    Anyhow, this is the comment I was referencing from another thread:

    "Your timing could not have been better. We just had a full day of sustained 60 MPH winds with higher gusts and we lost some of the roof over an addition. So, I am in emergency mode once again!"
    Last edited by jhe.1973; 03-25-2016 at 07:59 PM. Reason: Clarification
    "To invent you need a good imagination and a pile of junk." - Thomas Edison
    Best wishes to Ya'll. Sincerely, Jim

  11. #11

    Default Re: Music Box from Hell (By: jhe.1973)

    Thanks for taking the time to post. I always enjoy seeing a craftsman at work

  12. #12

    Default Re: Music Box from Hell (By: jhe.1973)

    That was a lot of work, jhe! Nice job!
    A man with a clock always knows the time. A man with two clocks is never sure.

  13. #13

    Default Re: Music Box from Hell (By: shutterbug)

    Thanks for the nice comments guys!

    Here is post #4 re-entered as it was supposed to appear w/photos:

    To get the correct center distance and verify my CAD drawing before I drilled the hole in the barrel, I set both parts up in my mill so could use the DRO

    Click image for larger version. 

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    And check the entire rotation:

    Click image for larger version. 

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    For the counterbore I don't have my 8mm faceplate adapted to my 10mm lathe yet, sooooo I had to come up with another way to hold it. First I clamped it to a drill bushing on a setup block I have:

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Then, clamping it with an aluminum clamp I rigged up, I could remove the previous screw:

    Click image for larger version. 

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    This two step process assured that the brass was held flat while I tightened the aluminum clamp (no tipping please)

    Then I could reach through the hole to line up the part:

    Click image for larger version. 

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    A quick plunge w/an endmill and:

    Click image for larger version. 

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    All done:

    Click image for larger version. 

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    This is the complete post as it should have appeared!
    "To invent you need a good imagination and a pile of junk." - Thomas Edison
    Best wishes to Ya'll. Sincerely, Jim

  14. #14
    Registered user.
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    Default Re: Music Box from Hell (By: jhe.1973)

    I'd think it easiest to do the counter bore first?
    Tinker Dwight

  15. #15

    Default Re: Music Box from Hell (By: Tinker Dwight)

    How about posting a video of it working? Pretty cool 'resurrection'
    A man with a clock always knows the time. A man with two clocks is never sure.

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