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  1. #16

    Default Re: E. Howard "Round Top" - Unfolding Restoration and New Guy (By: scootermcrad)

    Quote Originally Posted by scootermcrad View Post
    OH! And I found out WHEN the Seth Thomas movement was in stalled. 1876. I'm hoping to find it registered or accounted for somewhere. If I had to guess, I would say it might be a ST #2? Or at least it looks similar from the pictures I saw.

    Looking through records for Seth Thomas installations, I came across Hotchkiss installations. This clock is listed as Seth Thomas/Hotchkiss. Someone please tell me more about this.

    THANK YOU!
    First, it's NOT an ST #2. ST# 2 was/is a time only clock. Get a copy of "Seth Thomas Clocks and Movements, Third Edition, Volume II". Start on page 816. This one is obviously a striking clock. Just for the hell of it, WHERE is this clock located? And could we get in-focus, better illuminated photos? T'would help a lot.

    As for the Seth Thomas/Hotchkiss listing, that came from a listing of clocks made and installed by A. S. Hotchkiss, published by A. S Hotchkiss. Seth Thomas padded their installation accounts--Does this surprise anyone? Don't forget that Seth Thomas had purchased the Hotchkiss business in 1872. And that data is from the listing of installations I mechanized and posted.

    The "electrification" imposed on this clock WILL destroy it. Clock tooth profiles are NOT designed to be driven from the top end of a train. What was disengaging friction now becomes engaging friction, and it's severe. Further, the "gentleman" who designed and installed the motors and mercury switches nearly always took with him the parts--escapement, fan fly, etc.--when he left. Rumor has it that his son is going about and replacing the missing parts to restore the originality of the clock for a hefty sum. Built-in job security, don'cha know? This is NOT a self-winder, it's using electric motors to drive the trains from the top end.

    Where is the bell hammer? I don't see it.

    And change the heading under which the thread appears. T'aint no Round top.

  2. #17
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    Default Re: E. Howard "Round Top" - Unfolding Restoration and New Guy (By: Donn Haven Lathrop)

    Quote Originally Posted by Donn Haven Lathrop View Post
    First, it's NOT an ST #2. ST# 2 was/is a time only clock. Get a copy of "Seth Thomas Clocks and Movements, Third Edition, Volume II". Start on page 816. This one is obviously a striking clock. Just for the hell of it, WHERE is this clock located? And could we get in-focus, better illuminated photos? T'would help a lot.

    As for the Seth Thomas/Hotchkiss listing, that came from a listing of clocks made and installed by A. S. Hotchkiss, published by A. S Hotchkiss. Seth Thomas padded their installation accounts--Does this surprise anyone? Don't forget that Seth Thomas had purchased the Hotchkiss business in 1872. And that data is from the listing of installations I mechanized and posted.

    The "electrification" imposed on this clock WILL destroy it. Clock tooth profiles are NOT designed to be driven from the top end of a train. What was disengaging friction now becomes engaging friction, and it's severe. Further, the "gentleman" who designed and installed the motors and mercury switches nearly always took with him the parts--escapement, fan fly, etc.--when he left. Rumor has it that his son is going about and replacing the missing parts to restore the originality of the clock for a hefty sum. Built-in job security, don'cha know? This is NOT a self-winder, it's using electric motors to drive the trains from the top end.

    Where is the bell hammer? I don't see it.

    And change the heading under which the thread appears. T'aint no Round top.
    Donn,
    Sorry, the level of research I've done between the start of this thread and now has been 10-fold! My eyes have been bleeding from all the reading and my head is spinning with all the info and help I've received.

    First thing I tried to do when I found out the clock was NOT an E Howard was try to change the title, but it wouldn't let me edit the post. Not sure why. Maybe beyond the grace period? Not sure.

    My guess that it was a #2 was WAY premature and a BAD guess in so many ways. HA! So excuse the premature guessing. I've learned.

    The pictures were taken by someone else and have been all I have to reference. Tuesday I will be going up and taking a bunch of fresh pictures and hopefully with much better details.

    With the help of one Mr. Phil Wright, in Ohio, we seem to have identified the clock as an early ST, probably from the hands of Hotchkiss, and probably built in 1875 for the 1876 installation. We are assuming it to be a #6a, which was similar to the ST #16A or #16B and even resembles a #17, in a lot of ways.

    I'm going to start a fresh thread on this next week, since it's been kind of gobbely-gooped up with my own bad assumptions and terrible pictures. I'll have much better pictures next week.

    All good points! I assume the person that electrified it took the parts. He is no longer with us, so it may be a challenge to get them back. And I'm praying that the driving motors haven't done irreversible damage. Not sure about the bell strike hammer, but it seems that portion may have been taken out of service because of complaints from when it was actually still a courthouse.

    Updated thread to come! Thanks for your input and I apologize for all the pre-mature assumptions. This whole thing has really been incredibly educational and a great way to get educated on these massive clocks. I'm thrilled and determined! Nothing like jumping in head first. Hopefully there's a bit of water in the pool for me... HA!

  3. #18

    Default Re: E. Howard "Round Top" - Unfolding Restoration and New Guy (By: scootermcrad)

    You have nothing to apologize for or to feel bad about. This board needs new people to start new threads and post pictures. I enjoy reading all new posts and looking at the pics of all of these old clocks.
    Phil Wright is a good guy and has helped me with one of my restorations.
    Welcome to the group and keep posting.

  4. #19

    Default Re: E. Howard "Round Top" - Unfolding Restoration and New Guy (By: scootermcrad)

    Still don't know where the clock is. Could be in:

    Athens, Court House--Hotchkiss AL
    Birmingham, City Buildings--Hotchkiss
    Monticello, Court House--Hotchkiss
    Searcy, Court House--Hotchkiss
    San Bernardino, Court House--Hotchkiss CA
    Georgetown, Court House--Hotchkiss
    Marietta, Clock--Hotchkiss GA
    Freeport, Court House--Hotchkiss IL
    Macomb, Court House--Hotchkiss
    Nevada, Court House--Hotchkiss
    Freehold, Court House--Hotchkiss NJ
    Jefferson Market Court House--Hotchkiss
    Concord, Court House--Hotchkiss
    Greensboro, Court House--Hotchkiss NC
    Athens, Court House--Hotchkiss OH
    Defiance, Court House--Hotchkiss
    Eaton, Court House--Hotchkiss OH
    Mansfield, Court House--Hotchkiss
    Richmond, City Hall--Hotchkiss
    Sandusky, Erie County Court House--Hotchkiss
    Steubenville, Court House--Hotchkiss OH
    Meadville, Court House--Hotchkiss PA
    Wilkes Barre, County Court House--Hotchkiss
    Jackson, Court House--Hotchkiss TN
    Jackson, Court House--Hotchkiss TX

    As for damage, check the pinions first. They catch the brunt of what is now engaging friction. As I said, rumor has it that the missing parts are now controlled by the son of the man (I can't remember his last name--first name is Robert) somewhere in PA. Anyone know?
    Scour the area around the clock--his contract may not have included the removal of the missing parts. I found the parts for a clock in NH neatly tucked under the bell above the clock. But only once.

    Early clocks had a very distinctive shape to the pallets--check Shelley's "Early American Tower Clocks", Section II. None of Hotchkiss' late clocks are illustrated (never seen one illustrated) simply because they were made after the 1870 cutoff date.

  5. #20
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    Default Re: E. Howard "Round Top" - Unfolding Restoration and New Guy (By: Donn Haven Lathrop)

    Sorry. I was trying to be a little discrete about where the clock is until things are all underway. It's the Concord Hotchkiss listing.

    Well that makes sense why I'm having such a hard time finding any information on the Hotchkiss tower clocks.

    I'm really anxious to get up there and take some detailed pictures of this thing. I'll have a look around for the pieces while I'm there. I don't think anyone has been up there since 2009, so the condition of the tower interior is a bit of a mystery, so I'm hoping that things are safe from the stand point of bees and critters. Otherwise it will be a real short visit.


    Quote Originally Posted by Donn Haven Lathrop View Post
    Still don't know where the clock is. Could be in:


    Concord, Court House--Hotchkiss


    As for damage, check the pinions first. They catch the brunt of what is now engaging friction. As I said, rumor has it that the missing parts are now controlled by the son of the man (I can't remember his last name--first name is Robert) somewhere in PA. Anyone know?
    Scour the area around the clock--his contract may not have included the removal of the missing parts. I found the parts for a clock in NH neatly tucked under the bell above the clock. But only once.

    Early clocks had a very distinctive shape to the pallets--check Shelley's "Early American Tower Clocks", Section II. None of Hotchkiss' late clocks are illustrated (never seen one illustrated) simply because they were made after the 1870 cutoff date.

  6. #21
    Registered User FDelGreco's Avatar
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    Default Re: E. Howard "Round Top" - Unfolding Restoration and New Guy (By: scootermcrad)

    Quote Originally Posted by scootermcrad View Post
    I'll have a look around for the pieces while I'm there.
    Don't forget to check the basement.

    Frank

  7. #22
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    Default Re: E. Howard "Round Top" - Unfolding Restoration and New Guy (By: Stotman)

    Quote Originally Posted by Stotman View Post
    You have nothing to apologize for or to feel bad about. This board needs new people to start new threads and post pictures. I enjoy reading all new posts and looking at the pics of all of these old clocks.
    Phil Wright is a good guy and has helped me with one of my restorations.
    Welcome to the group and keep posting.
    Stotman,
    I just saw this reply from you. So sorry! Thank you for the encouragement. I appreciate it. This is all new territory for me, so any help from you guys is going to be greatly appreciated.

  8. #23
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    Default Tower Clock Restoration Unfolding and New Guy (By: FDelGreco)

    Okay everyone! I just got home from seeing the installation first hand. What a mess. Beyond the installation itself missing parts, the stairs are SCAAAARRRYYY! Maybe not as scary as the ghost Judge that supposedly haunts the courthouse, had I run into him (HA!), but definitely scary. The floors are going to be replaced and various platforms structurally reinforced. Electricity will also have to be updated. That's just the basics though.

    I'm going to be proposing several scenarios to the country, on behalf of the local Historical Society. They will then be reviewed by the county and then funding will be raised once everyone agrees on a plan of attack and final outcome.

    Here's what I learned tonight, besides all the building issues. Overall, the belfry and clock area is pretty well secure from outside elements. No bee infestations or bird problems, but years of dust and dirt. Nobody has bothered to sweep, maybe ever. HA! Lots of junk sitting around also.

    The clock faces were originally wood and wrapped in sheet metal. They are present, but in poor shape. The faces present are simply plate glass with screen printed details, or maybe painted. Not the correct roman numerals and the minute marks are all peeling off. They are installed from the inside, which will make restoration much easier. The copper dials are all still in place, but I'm not sure how they are installed yet. They may ALSO come out from the inside. Those may be left alone, though.

    Working backwards from the faces, the motion works, hands, and bevel gears are all working freely and appear to be in good shape. I don't anticipate any issues. Everything appears to be original and untouched.

    Moving down to the movement, this is where things get dicey. The whole installation is in a galvanized box, which appears to have been done sometime in the 80's. It definitely protected the movement from dust and bird poop. It also made it VERY difficult to see the movement components, but from what I could see, the movement has no original paint left on it or has been repainted poorly. The pendulum and escapement components have all been removed, including the arbor, which is heartbreaking. The set dial is also missing, but hands are still in place. We will have to try and find them or we will have to have them made.

    The motors that were used were installed fairly responsibly. One hole was drilled for the bracket, while the other bolt used an existing hole, so not too devastating. The gear motor driving the clock is driving from the top, as expected. The good news is, I don't see a lot of wear and it seems that the clock potentially hasn't run since the late 70's and at LEAST the 80's. So maybe it didn't run long enough to do damage. There seemed to be no tension on the components at all, as if the gear motor had been disengaged. There was a bit of lash in the wheels, but the teeth don't seem damaged or mis-shaped. Can someone tell me how much lash should be expected?

    The bell train appeared to be mostly complete, less the fly components since it is run off of the lower gear motor. Was difficult to tell what the chain was driving, but it appeared to be running the large wheel? The main bell strike hammer and components appeared to all be there and functioning as well. I may or may not have "checked the operation". Bell appears to be in good shape, less a tiny nick out of the edge.

    Also missing are all of the counterweights and cables. Even the pulleys have been removed. I saw one old cut cable hanging, and that's it. No evidence of weight shoots ever existing, but there were plenty of slots in the floor and plenty of room for the weights to hang below the belfry platform. So that will be pretty challenging to set up, but at least we can do what works best for the installation and building.

    For the missing components, we've checked everywhere in the building. It's a long shot, but someone knows the family of one of the original clock keepers who ran a shop on the same block as the courthouse and also did the electrification.

    PICTURES COMING! Hold tight! I need to upload them from the camera.

  9. #24
    Registered User scootermcrad's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tower Clock Restoration Unfolding and New Guy (By: scootermcrad)

    Okay, here are the pictures. I'm pretty comfortable around a camera and I have to say that it was very difficult to get pictures with the heavy glare from the windows and the low lighting inside the box, not to mention hardly any room to move around the box or get the camera inside the box. Even with an 18mm wide (ish) angle lens I couldn't get the whole movement in one picture.










    All of the wheels I could get my eyes on looked like this one.



    The clock motor setup





    From the fly side. This really shows the majority of the missing components.



    Moving out and up...





  10. #25
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    Default Re: Tower Clock Restoration Unfolding and New Guy (By: scootermcrad)

    These next two pictures really show the condition of all 4 faces and motionworks.





    And here's one of the ORIGINAL wood face, wrapped in sheet metal



    More bell train stuff, including the lower motor. Sorry. Dark and not very descriptive



    From the fly side



    Had to just stick the camera in the box here. Not great, but shows condition




  11. #26
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    Default Re: Tower Clock Restoration Unfolding and New Guy (By: scootermcrad)

    And moving down the stairs to the bell components

    Not sure if this is original or added later, but most of it appears to be missing, including the hammer assembly. Can't figure this assembly out.









    Last, but not least, the business side. I didn't get any pictures of the linkage, but all was present and functional.


  12. #27
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    Default Re: Tower Clock Restoration Unfolding and New Guy (By: scootermcrad)

    So here's my questions:

    1) How much lash is too much lash in the unloaded train?

    2) If parts cannot be traced back through the family of the gentleman that electrified the clock, is my best bet to assume parts from Phil Wright's Hotchkiss is going to be the best bet for making patterns for new parts? Or should I be looking at a Seth Thomas #16a or #16b? Something else? I believe the Hotckiss would have been slightly different. Pinwheel, possibly.

    3) Level of restoration! No sign of original paint or tags on the chassis. Match the green paint and repaint? Would brush painting be a more correct finish?

    4) The county will want auto-winders. Recommended source?

    5) Have any of you tried a control system of sorts to remotely control the bell strike without modifying the original mechanism and strike components? This is a huge concern by the county commission.

    6) Counterweights - starting from scratch. What is the latest trend in restoring this portion of the assembly? Safety of the system is important, so I'll be taking into consideration tethers and/or fall absorption box of some kind.

    7) Faces. Would it be considered unethical to restore everything, but install frosted glass, back-lit faces instead of the original wood faces. The county feels they will want the faces to be back-lit, like the current configuration. This seems fair and since the original faces are present, they can be preserved in the museum that's in the building.

    For reference, here's Phil Wright's Seth Thomas/Hotchkiss that is determined to be a #6a. This appears to be a very close match to ours.





    This is just the beginning of my questions, but that's enough to start with.
    Last edited by scootermcrad; 03-23-2016 at 07:14 AM.

  13. #28

    Default Re: Tower Clock Restoration Unfolding and New Guy (By: scootermcrad)

    Just want to say how much I applaud your effort to persuade the owners to restore the clock. It is an important and worthwhile project! And as time goes by each of these clocks preserved and restored will become more and more scarce and appreciated.

    Without unnecessarily bringing legal issues into play, depending on the sources of funding for the building's restoration and local and state laws, protection of the historic mechanism may be a requirement, as it is a significant component of a historic building. Perhaps just something to keep in mind if the decision seems heading towards a modern replacement clock.

    I think the original dial design would be a much better fit for this Victorian building. It should be possible to light it with discrete LEDs from the exterior.
    Jeremy

  14. #29
    Registered User FDelGreco's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tower Clock Restoration Unfolding and New Guy (By: Jeremy Woodoff)

    Scott:

    Sometimes when many parts are missing and the ones left are in bad shape, it’s better to find an exact replacement clock and install that instead. Any “good” parts from the old clock can then be sold to those needing them which helps finance the job; the bad parts can be cleaned up and used as giveaways in any fundraiser you may conduct to finance the restoration process. Let me tell you about one of my experiences.

    The Howard roundtop time and strike clock in the Geauga County courthouse in the Village of Chardon, OH ran until 1944 when a weight cable broke. The weight crashed through two floors and ended up in a courtroom while court was in session. The officials said “no more” to a weight driven clock so they had it electrified, with a motor driving it from the top of the train. It took 25 years for the motor to grind everything to a halt when it stopped in 1970. It didn’t run for the next 25 years until Tom, one of my chapter members, saw it wasn’t running while on a hot air balloon ride over the village.

    We put together a team of five members from our chapter and told the county we would restore the clock to original condition pro bono – with the county paying only for parts – no markups. They were a little hesitant about the money so a jewelry store owner in the village square started a fundraiser. She raised $20,000 in one month! We were set to go.

    We took the clock to Tom’s house – in pieces – and reassembled it in his garage. It was in deplorable condition with many parts missing or damaged beyond repair. I remember one of the great wheels had all the teeth leaning significantly in one direction.

    We found a collector in Texas that had an identical clock and we bought it from him. It needed some restoration – cleaning, rebushing, repainting, and pinstriping. The escape wheel was wrong, so we had a new one made. We made a temporary short pendulum for it so we could test it in Tom’s garage. We sold the old frame and winding drums to someone who needed them.

    We reinstalled the clock in the courthouse, carrying it up piece by piece. The clock was originally installed at the same level as the dials, but that room was not weather – or pigeon – tight. We installed the clock two floors down, just below the bell room, in the highest floor that was weather-tight and heated. I built a huge Plexiglas case to house the clock. We had to install a really long vertical drive shaft from the clock through two floors to a distribution tower in the dial room. I built a platform on which the distribution tower sat – I made it from planks of oak that came from a 300-year old oak tree that had fallen decades ago and was sawn into lumber and stored in a barn. Two Chardon residents (brothers) donated the lumber because they wanted to be part of the project.

    We added an auto rewind system on each train. We put new weights – lead plates we had made so we could add or subtract weight, in steel chases with a huge truck coil spring on the bottom of each in case a cable broke. Microswitches turned the rewind motors on and off – that rewound each train through a gear reduction box, electrically operated clutch, and drive chain on each side.

    The village was excited about the restoration. There was a big ceremony to start the clock at 12 noon. I even made a speech from the village gazebo. A young boy who was the great grandson of the guy who used to wind the clock prior to 1944 was there to start the clock.

    Last October, one of the wood hands on the south dial broke and stopped the clock. I was lifted more than 80 feet into the air by the fire department’s ladder truck to change out the hand. Funny – as there are no other buildings in Chardon that tall I asked the fireman whether he put out many fires with the ladder truck. He said, “No, we mainly use it to fix flagpoles.” Geez…a $1+ million truck to change hands and fix flagpoles!

    As it turned out, once the restoration was complete and the clock running (1996), the county engineers quickly decided – right or wrong – that ringing the bell would shake the mortar in the building walls loose so they would not allow striking to take place. So the clock has run well but silently for the last 20 years. An electronic carillon provides the sound. Check with the officials ahead of time to make sure they will allow bell striking. Ours weighed about 1500 pounds.

    Frank

  15. #30
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    Default Re: Tower Clock Restoration Unfolding and New Guy (By: FDelGreco)

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremy Woodoff View Post
    Just want to say how much I applaud your effort to persuade the owners to restore the clock. It is an important and worthwhile project! And as time goes by each of these clocks preserved and restored will become more and more scarce and appreciated.

    Without unnecessarily bringing legal issues into play, depending on the sources of funding for the building's restoration and local and state laws, protection of the historic mechanism may be a requirement, as it is a significant component of a historic building. Perhaps just something to keep in mind if the decision seems heading towards a modern replacement clock.

    I think the original dial design would be a much better fit for this Victorian building. It should be possible to light it with discrete LEDs from the exterior.
    Great suggestions and I actually have it on my list to find out about historical protection for the movement, if it's deemed restorable.

    I have an uphill battle, and I'm concerned about the ability to replace the parts, but at least I have one to look at (8 hours away) if I need to. I'm not sure if that particular movement has a home, but maybe it could be purchased as a suitable replacement if ours cannot be saved. Some stress I'm taking on here to make sure the right thing is done, but I think it will be worth it.

    Quote Originally Posted by FDelGreco View Post
    Scott:

    Sometimes when many parts are missing and the ones left are in bad shape, it’s better to find an exact replacement clock and install that instead. Any “good” parts from the old clock can then be sold to those needing them which helps finance the job; the bad parts can be cleaned up and used as giveaways in any fundraiser you may conduct to finance the restoration process. Let me tell you about one of my experiences.

    The Howard roundtop time and strike clock in the Geauga County courthouse in the Village of Chardon, OH ran until 1944 when a weight cable broke. The weight crashed through two floors and ended up in a courtroom while court was in session. The officials said “no more” to a weight driven clock so they had it electrified, with a motor driving it from the top of the train. It took 25 years for the motor to grind everything to a halt when it stopped in 1970. It didn’t run for the next 25 years until Tom, one of my chapter members, saw it wasn’t running while on a hot air balloon ride over the village.

    We put together a team of five members from our chapter and told the county we would restore the clock to original condition pro bono – with the county paying only for parts – no markups. They were a little hesitant about the money so a jewelry store owner in the village square started a fundraiser. She raised $20,000 in one month! We were set to go.

    We took the clock to Tom’s house – in pieces – and reassembled it in his garage. It was in deplorable condition with many parts missing or damaged beyond repair. I remember one of the great wheels had all the teeth leaning significantly in one direction.

    We found a collector in Texas that had an identical clock and we bought it from him. It needed some restoration – cleaning, rebushing, repainting, and pinstriping. The escape wheel was wrong, so we had a new one made. We made a temporary short pendulum for it so we could test it in Tom’s garage. We sold the old frame and winding drums to someone who needed them.

    We reinstalled the clock in the courthouse, carrying it up piece by piece. The clock was originally installed at the same level as the dials, but that room was not weather – or pigeon – tight. We installed the clock two floors down, just below the bell room, in the highest floor that was weather-tight and heated. I built a huge Plexiglas case to house the clock. We had to install a really long vertical drive shaft from the clock through two floors to a distribution tower in the dial room. I built a platform on which the distribution tower sat – I made it from planks of oak that came from a 300-year old oak tree that had fallen decades ago and was sawn into lumber and stored in a barn. Two Chardon residents (brothers) donated the lumber because they wanted to be part of the project.

    We added an auto rewind system on each train. We put new weights – lead plates we had made so we could add or subtract weight, in steel chases with a huge truck coil spring on the bottom of each in case a cable broke. Microswitches turned the rewind motors on and off – that rewound each train through a gear reduction box, electrically operated clutch, and drive chain on each side.

    The village was excited about the restoration. There was a big ceremony to start the clock at 12 noon. I even made a speech from the village gazebo. A young boy who was the great grandson of the guy who used to wind the clock prior to 1944 was there to start the clock.

    Last October, one of the wood hands on the south dial broke and stopped the clock. I was lifted more than 80 feet into the air by the fire department’s ladder truck to change out the hand. Funny – as there are no other buildings in Chardon that tall I asked the fireman whether he put out many fires with the ladder truck. He said, “No, we mainly use it to fix flagpoles.” Geez…a $1+ million truck to change hands and fix flagpoles!

    As it turned out, once the restoration was complete and the clock running (1996), the county engineers quickly decided – right or wrong – that ringing the bell would shake the mortar in the building walls loose so they would not allow striking to take place. So the clock has run well but silently for the last 20 years. An electronic carillon provides the sound. Check with the officials ahead of time to make sure they will allow bell striking. Ours weighed about 1500 pounds.

    Frank
    As always, Frank, that's a great and inspirational story. In FACT, it would be possible to move the movement one level down from the bell assembly. Obviously some rework on the bell strike will have to be done, but the counterweight system will also have to be redone.

    What did you use for counterweights? Did you attempt to keep it historically/era correct with the weights themselves or did you go with something made of more modern materials (cast plates)?

    There only seems to be concerns about the bell ringing during certain events and at night. The courthouse has been replaced with a theater, so obviously people don't want to hear the bell during a production or movie screening. Bell striking taking place itself, should be okay, I think. We DID happen to find out that the bell weighs 994 pounds, when digging through some historical archives.

    Frank (or anyone). How much play in the wheels is too much? The teeth look okay to me and I don't see any evidence of breakage. I will certainly have to start removing it to know REALLY how much damage their is, but I need to start thinking of a plan of action for all of this. So far I'm up to about 5 different plans, and throw a 6th in there with the idea of moving the clock assembly to the floor below the bell platform.

    Thanks everyone!

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