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  1. #31

    Default Re: Robert Roskell Liverpool movement...perhaps later 1880s? (By: PapaLouies)

    Hmmmm, the engraver forgot he moved ? Seriously, the case matches the movement... And I do not believe it was a 2nd case.. If you have a clue to the hallmarks not being what I interprete, I would welcome your input .. I get Chester 1873, k in a cut corner cameo.. RO in an oval, Richard Oliver 10 Galway St, St. Luke's, London.. Active dates 4 Dec 1867 and moved to Northampton Square Clerkenwell. 27 July 1882... Case has the number 42 which I would assume is the last 2 numbers of the movement serial number..

  2. #32
    Registered User gmorse's Avatar
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    Default Re: Robert Roskell Liverpool movement...perhaps later 1880s? (By: John Pavlik)

    Hi John,

    Quote Originally Posted by John Pavlik View Post
    ... RO in an oval, Richard Oliver 10 Galway St, St. Luke's, London.. Active dates 4 Dec 1867 and moved to Northampton Square Clerkenwell. 27 July 1882...
    Yes, it could be, but in the Chester lists (Part B; Reasonable attributions of hallmarks to case makers) Priestley has an entry for one Robert Over of Liverpool, 1859-72, (dates derived from Jacksons), and this is a viable alternative for the case maker, since a Liverpool case maker is more likely for a Liverpool watch, don't you think?

    Regards,

    Graham

    "Ut tensio, sic vis" - Robert Hooke

  3. #33

    Default Re: Robert Roskell Liverpool movement...perhaps later 1880s? (By: John Pavlik)

    Hi John,

    I do not question your read of the hallmarks. Just thought you may have a solid explanation for the very late date.

    Regards,

    PL

  4. #34

    Default Re: Robert Roskell Liverpool movement...perhaps later 1880s? (By: PapaLouies)

    Graham, agreed... I guess I stopped short of Part B after seeing the "needed" mark in the primary section. This may cloud the question that PL brought up about Roskells move to London...

    PL, I can not add any speculation to your question.. I am not a very good student of Roskell.

  5. #35
    Registered User Allan C. Purcell's Avatar
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    Default Re: Robert Roskell Liverpool movement...perhaps later 1880s? (By: John Pavlik)

    Hi John,

    If you read the information on William Roskell (25) of this thread, you will see when Robert Roskell Jr. Joined the firm Hunt & Roskell, the family still had their shop in Liverpool. (With a very good name)
    Why sell watches with Hunt & & Roskell on them. It would then have on the top plate Hunt & Roskel London & Liverpool.(Not seen one like that?) I think this is where the mistakes are been made with the higher numbers of Roskell watches engraved Liverpool. I am at the moment trying to extract Hunt & Roskell numbers out of my lists.

    Thank you again for posting the photographs, and I will put them in the lists when I have them sorted again.

    Allan.

  6. #36
    Registered User Allan C. Purcell's Avatar
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    Default Re: Robert Roskell Liverpool movement...perhaps later 1880s? (By: Allan C. Purcell)

    Hi,

    I think now the Roskell numbers for the Liverpool branch are in a better order, and now go from 509 (c1798) to 101099 in C1900.

    There are also 33 watches in the 20,000 range, which I think will be of use to some of you.

    Here is the new up-date

    .Click image for larger version. 

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  7. #37
    Registered User Allan C. Purcell's Avatar
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    Default Re: Robert Roskell Liverpool movement...perhaps later 1880s? (By: Allan C. Purcell)

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Another update.

  8. #38
    Registered User Allan C. Purcell's Avatar
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    Default Re: Robert Roskell Liverpool movement...perhaps later 1880s? (By: Allan C. Purcell)



    Another update.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails R. ROSKELL Numbers..pdf  
    Last edited by Allan C. Purcell; 10-20-2016 at 09:57 AM. Reason: Up-date.

  9. #39
    Registered User Allan C. Purcell's Avatar
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    Default Re: Robert Roskell Liverpool movement...perhaps later 1880s? (By: Allan C. Purcell)

    Hallo everyone,

    I would like to move this thread along, just a little. I am now the proud owner of Roskell No.172. Please see photographs below. What I would like to know,
    if you agree, is there anyone out there with any number under one thousand who is willing sent photographs of their watch or watches.

    Though any numbered watches not on the lists above.

    Best wishes,

    Allan.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Rack lever with thirty tooth escape wheel. Can be wound through the dial or from the the rear.

  10. #40
    Registered User Allan C. Purcell's Avatar
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    Default Re: Robert Roskell Liverpool movement...perhaps later 1880s? (By: Allan C. Purcell)

    Another three photographs of the Roskell No.172.




    Click image for larger version. 

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    Regards,

    Allan.

  11. #41

    Default Re: Robert Roskell Liverpool movement...perhaps later 1880s? (By: PapaLouies)

    Hi Allan, a couple of interesting things, my 1816 serial number 8927, Signed Robert Roskell Pocket Watch (in your list of Serials as 1815) looks older than your movement and has an older Style Balance Cock and the Flat Verge like Balance Wheel. Your movement is just signed Roskell? They are both Rack Levers, but to me the Serial 172 does not look right? Don't get me wrong Allan I would love to have your movement, but to me the serial number and just signed Roskell does not look right. Regards Ray Click image for larger version. 

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  12. #42
    Registered User Allan C. Purcell's Avatar
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    Default Re: Robert Roskell Liverpool movement...perhaps later 1880s? (By: Omexa)

    Hi Ray,

    I know it looks odd, but that is often the case, when a watchmaker is the only one making watches of that name, many signed their watches so. If you follow the signatures by Roskell you will see at first,

    Roskell as above, then like yours Rt.Roskell, later still Rob.Roskell, and then Robt.Roskell. That is why I put the signature style in my lists. It´s a small help in dateing the watches. I like your watch too Ray, and my birthday is coming up soon.

    Best wishes,

    Allan.

  13. #43

    Default Re: Robert Roskell Liverpool movement...perhaps later 1880s? (By: Allan C. Purcell)

    Hi Allan, thanks to you by looking up my Pocket Watch, I found two interesting facts about "Ichabod Prall", I just looked him up and I found that there was an "Ichabod Prall Junior" and very importantly that Ichabod Prall Senior had something to do with the purchase of Florida from Spain in 1817. I would say that my Pocket Watch would have gone with him to Havana Cuba. I like the bit about the Seminoles as former inhabitants of the land but subsequently abandoned by them (read for this "Driven out"). I knew that Ichabod was in the Army and that he was very rich and had lots of land but this information is new to me, thanks Allan. Regards Ray Click image for larger version. 

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  14. #44

    Default Re: Robert Roskell Liverpool movement...perhaps later 1880s? (By: Omexa)

    Hi Ray,

    Is the case marked T.H and is it hallmarked?

    Regards,

    PL

  15. #45

    Default Re: Robert Roskell Liverpool movement...perhaps later 1880s? (By: PapaLouies)

    Hi PL, unfortunately I did not have what I think was a Gold original Case (went to the Scrappers I suppose) so I got hold of an 1815 Case and fit the movement into it. Regards Ray
    Last edited by Omexa; 11-02-2016 at 11:02 AM.

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