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  1. #16
    Registered User gmorse's Avatar
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    Default Re: Robert Roskell Liverpool movement...perhaps later 1880s? (By: Jerry Freedman)

    Hi Jerry,

    It was an article by Robert Kemp in the June 1985 issue of Antiquarian Horology (Vol. 15 No. 4). These back issues are available online to AHS members.

    Regards,

    Graham

    "Ut tensio, sic vis" - Robert Hooke

  2. #17
    Registered User Allan C. Purcell's Avatar
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    Default Re: Robert Roskell Liverpool movement...perhaps later 1880s? (By: gmorse)

    Hello Gmorse and Jrerry. In my lists on robert Roskell are the numbers by Dr. Kemp. I took them out of his book. "The Englishman´s Watch" There are two watches of interest here-No. 21544 and No.21563-but both are only movements. In my list of numbers from 20850 to 29493 (23 in all) only 13 are in hallmarked cases. 20850 Chester 1815 20997 22371 Chester 1813 Chester 1813 22668 Chester 1835 24423 Chester 1815 24845 Chester 1837 25220 Chester 1814 25346 Chester 1824 25506 Chester 1816 27626 Chester 1820 29283 Chester 1824 29293 Chester 1818. I am begining to think your watch is genuine Jerry-pair case and all. There are now 117 on the lists and I have sent them to the Editor-should be some news on that next week. Though I will be away for a few days next week.

  3. #18
    Registered User Allan C. Purcell's Avatar
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    Default Re: Robert Roskell Liverpool movement...perhaps later 1880s? (By: gmorse)

    I have of late being reading a book edited by J.R. Harris. "Liverpool & Merseyside-Essays in the econmic and social history of the port and its hinterland". The first chepter is by Harris- The Seventeenth-century Origins of Watch-making in South-west Lancashire. This is in the main Liverpool-Prescott- Preston-& Warrington. If you collect watches by name, you should enjoy the read. It goes on to say most of the watches made there were for export. In chapter Five there is a fasinateing piece by B.H.Tolley "The Liverpool Campaign Against the Order in Council and the War of 1812. (Between the UK & the USA)This too is of great interest in that many watches from Liverpool could not officiantly be exported to the USA-in fact all exports from the UK. Many were then sent to Canada. Many of these were movements that were then cased by the Americans. Though there is far more to it than that. I myself wonder about Geroge savage going out to Canada around this time. (I think 1822) Was he casing watches for the USA trade. Just an idea from me or maybe a day dream.. The book can be bought for a few pence-worth far more if you can find one on the net. While we are at it another read on the Net-try Foreignn Clocks and Watches-a letter to the TIMES by John Bennett. You get the truth strait from the horses mouth.


  4. #19
    Registered User Allan C. Purcell's Avatar
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    Default Re: Robert Roskell Liverpool movement...perhaps later 1880s? (By: Allan C. Purcell)

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    The above watch is one I thought was worth a look. The name will be known by those interested in Liverpool pocket watches. (John Harrison)
    I have loaded this watch in fact to show the case, its a full hunter and I must say I find these early full hunters very atractive, plus the movement has much in common with the Roskell at the start pf this post. These full Hunter cases seem to have appeared around 1820. This one is hallmarked Chester 1835 and is a Massey Three.

    The next is by Richard Hornby also a Massey three with a thirty tooth escape wheel. Hallmarked Chester 1826.(Notice no seconds dial) Believe it or not it is 186gr. I have others if members are interested. I would like to hear what you have to say about the full hunter case.

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    Best wishes,
    Allan.
    Last edited by Steven Thornberry; 08-28-2016 at 03:23 PM. Reason: Add Hornby pictures

  5. #20
    Registered User Allan C. Purcell's Avatar
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    Default Re: Robert Roskell Liverpool movement...perhaps later 1880s? (By: Allan C. Purcell)

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    As promised the Roskell 9707 Steel Cylinder c1810. Very small movement. Balance plate 34mm. dial plate 40mm. Works well, but where do you find a case for it?

    It would make a nice wrist watch, must ask my silver smith what he thinks.

    Regards,
    Allan.
    Last edited by Allan C. Purcell; 08-21-2016 at 04:09 AM.

  6. #21
    Registered User Allan C. Purcell's Avatar
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    Default Re: Robert Roskell Liverpool movement...perhaps later 1880s? (By: Allan C. Purcell)

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    New up-date on Roskell numbers.
    Allan.

  7. #22
    Registered User Allan C. Purcell's Avatar
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    Default Re: Robert Roskell Liverpool movement...perhaps later 1880s? (By: Allan C. Purcell)

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    Another update.

  8. #23
    Registered User Allan C. Purcell's Avatar
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    Default Re: Robert Roskell Liverpool movement...perhaps later 1880s? (By: Allan C. Purcell)

    Going back to the begining of this thread I have to say I too an a liitle confused. Firstly The watch has Robt. Roskell Liverpool & the No. 36608. If the number were RT Sr. then the date would be c1824. Then there is the balance wheel that looks to modern for the date (Not impossible) then we have RT Jr. going to London to join Hunt & Roskell. Was this watch sold by that firm (Also possible) My Hunt & Roskell chronometer is numbered 13013 and my now wrist watch is 13495 both c1842 (remember Hunt & Roskell used a system where all items were nubered chronlogically). So at a guess we are back at c1860
    Allan.

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    My wrist watch.


    I have just re-read the Hunt & Roskell post again (Thanks Davey G.) I think I could be on the right track with the above??
    Last edited by Allan C. Purcell; 08-26-2016 at 09:26 AM.

  9. #24
    Registered User Allan C. Purcell's Avatar
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    Default Re: Robert Roskell Liverpool movement...perhaps later 1880s? (By: Allan C. Purcell)

    The above numbers are not correct, the chronometer is c1876 so it folloews the now wrist-watch must be later. Another look at the Hunt & Roskell numbers is now on-going.

    Regards,
    Allan.

  10. #25
    Registered User Allan C. Purcell's Avatar
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    Default Re: Robert Roskell Liverpool movement...perhaps later 1880s? (By: Allan C. Purcell)

    WILLIAM ROSKELL.docx

    Some more facts on the ROSKELL´S.

  11. #26

    Default Re: Robert Roskell Liverpool movement...perhaps later 1880s? (By: Allan C. Purcell)

    Hi Allan,

    I wonder if the adjustable mean time screws on the balance wheel could fix the date of this watch?

    Regards,

    PL

  12. #27
    Registered User Allan C. Purcell's Avatar
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    Default Re: Robert Roskell Liverpool movement...perhaps later 1880s? (By: PapaLouies)

    Hi Pl,

    c1876/77. Still working on those numbers.

    Regards,
    Allan.

  13. #28
    Registered User Allan C. Purcell's Avatar
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    Default Re: Robert Roskell Liverpool movement...perhaps later 1880s? (By: Allan C. Purcell)

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    Another up date.

  14. #29

    Default Re: Robert Roskell Liverpool movement...perhaps later 1880s? (By: Allan C. Purcell)

    Allen, attached are 2 later Roskell watches if you are logging them.. 18k Gold cased # 54515 full plate with lever escapement & single roller table.. I believe the case is American made in the English style.. lacking proper English hallmarks. The 2nd one in a proper sterling hallmarked case for 1873.. # 71642 full plate with lever escapement.. Interesting dial signature...
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  15. #30

    Default Re: Robert Roskell Liverpool movement...perhaps later 1880s? (By: John Pavlik)

    Hi John,

    If Robert Roskell moved to London in1843, how can we have a Roskell Liverpool watch dated 1873?

    Regards,

    PL

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