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  1. #1
    Registered user. Scottie-TX's Avatar
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    Default Gustav Becker Two Weight Movement Tips

    We get quite a few questions about striking movements and striking Viennas in general but there seems to be quite a few about Gustav Beckers. To that end I thought how it could be beneficial if we had a sort of reference or guide for the assembly, disassembly and problem solving for Becker striking movements plus I wanted to know more so I could be more helpful. What better way to learn or teach than to share the experience.
    For that purpose I acquired this GB striking movement.
    I'll go thru it with pictures and will leave gaps for others' counsel, guidance, tips, etc. Now ALL here know I am not an expert on striking movements, Becker, or anything else except perhaps loafing so YOUR comments, hints, and yes - corrections if necessary are VERY welcome and encouraged.
    The first part's for you, JOHN and your archives, comments, etc.
    Do tell Dr. Hub'; What're we looking at here?
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  2. #2
    Principal Administrator John Hubby's Avatar
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    Default Re: Gustav Becker Exercise (By: Scottie-TX)

    Scottie, I'll follow this with interest. What you have is a two-weight time & strike GB clock made at their Freiburg factory in second quarter 1914 based on the serial number. This movement was (or is) installed in an Altdeutsche style Vienna regulator case, has plain brass weights, wood rod pendulum with plain bob that is 64 cm long (P64), and a nice two-piece enamel dial with red decor between the Arabic numbers, a "seconds" bit, and Vienna style hands.

    I don't know the significance of the letter "A" that is stamped below the "P64", still researching that. GB weight and spring-driven "massiv" movements made in this time frame have been found with the letters A, M, P, or S stamped on the back plate either in the position of this one or to the right of the Medaille d'Or stamp. I would think they refer to some German horological term or word but nothing shows up of any consistency. Their Amerikaner design movements also have letter stamps, some of which I've figured out. They include H, K, M, R, and O; the "H" is "Hohltreiben" or lantern pinion, the "R" is "Reschen" for rack strike.

  3. #3
    Registered user. Scottie-TX's Avatar
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    Default Re: Gustav Becker Exercise (By: John Hubby)

    Thankya JOHN. So we're looking at a somewhat later model movement.
    Yeah WILL; Pretty much thata way. Some pix followed by comments, etc. This'll be a sort of fast forward process. I won't address every pivot, tooth, and part.
    Ready? Great. Here goes. The first counsel usually given someone planning disassembly is to take LOTS of pictures so here are just a few of mine - an overall picture, several closeups, some sideshots, etc.
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  4. #4
    Registered user. Scottie-TX's Avatar
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    Default Re: Gustav Becker Exercise (By: Scottie-TX)

    A few thoughts;
    I believe it may be wise to set the strikeside to the end of a strike cycle before taking pictures. To do this, pull down on strikeside drum and allow striking to complete it's cycle til it comes to rest. This reference will serve you for position of all parts when assembled - expecially the gathering pallet that can be installed in four positions. You can see I did not do this. Note position of detent in starwheel - that it fully engages two star points. It MUST do this. I'll be glad I took that one sideshot later.
    Comments? Additions? Corrections?

  5. #5

    Default Re: Gustav Becker Exercise (By: Scottie-TX)

    Has anybody mentioned that it's set up for a repeat-pull?

    ...That is to say, the snail doesn't advance gradually with the hour wheel. It's located on a star wheel. Near the end of the hour, a cam or pin advances the snail one tooth. The rest of the hour, any time the rack is dropped, it will fall on the current step of the snail and repeat the strike. The cute little handle over to the right can be depressed to trigger the strike. Tie a string to it and let it dangle down into the case. Pull the string to hear the strike repeat.

    The star wheel has a spring-loaded pawl that holds it in position.

    I hope that's not too technical.
    1. Check out the Repair Hints & How-To's forum. You may find your answer there.

  6. #6
    Registered user. Scottie-TX's Avatar
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    Default Re: Gustav Becker Exercise (By: bangster)

    Thanks BONG and for that reason and others it is important that the starwheel advances very close to the upcoming hour otherwise on a repeat request it would not repeat the last hour struck. We'll cover this setup in detail in the reassembly portion.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Gustav Becker Exercise (By: bangster)

    It looks like the strike is triggered on the hour and half-hour by pins on the minute wheel, but I'm not exactly clear on how the levers work. A blown up picture would help. On reassembly, I imagine it's important to have the snail-advance coordinated with the minute wheel, so it doesn't advance on the half hour.
    1. Check out the Repair Hints & How-To's forum. You may find your answer there.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Gustav Becker Exercise (By: Scottie-TX)

    You've already mentioned: Note the orientation of the GP after the strike has completed.

    A question: Which plate do you intend to remove (first)? Front or back?
    1. Check out the Repair Hints & How-To's forum. You may find your answer there.

  9. #9
    Registered user. Scottie-TX's Avatar
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    Default Re: Gustav Becker Exercise (By: bangster)

    Well, I believe I always remove the front plate for disassembly if that's what you mean.
    O.K. Let's begin dismantling. I believe it prudent to first remove the anchor/crutch assembly and hammer. Three reasons; 1. The crutch doesn't like the weight of the movement resting on top of it plus, you're putting it's pivots at risk. Second it provides a clean backplate with only the hammer arbor protruding and third, now the timeside can freewheel in case you need to move a part on the front such as the snail that may interfere with the removal of another part. Now you can lay it on it's back to remove parts from the front plate. Let's begin.
    I'll begin with the minute cannon and the intermediate wheel - the one it drives. Note that minute cannon is friction fit to centershaft. Gently twist while pulling upward. Remove cock from intermediate wheel.
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  10. #10
    Registered user. Scottie-TX's Avatar
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    Default Re: Gustav Becker Exercise (By: Scottie-TX)

    Now some tips, notes, suggestions before we proceed.
    Machine screws used in assembly. It is important that all screws should be returned to the holes you found them. That's because often screws look alike and are not. Also screws are sometimes lost and a repairman chooses to re-tap and use an unoriginal one. Whatever system you use, have a system to restore screws to the holes you found them.
    A list. My modus operandi on these. I make notes on removal of parts on the front - a sequence of removal and use that list to return in same order.
    Taper and securing pins. It's up to you. As I removed each pin I taped it to a simple diagram. You may elect to replace a mangled or ratty pin but the diagram serves also to make certain you do install each and every one.

  11. #11
    Registered user. Scottie-TX's Avatar
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    Default Re: Gustav Becker Exercise (By: Scottie-TX)

    Now a few words about those two wheels we removed.
    The minute cannon - the one with a long shaft and a flat on it. That flat is on both sides. Some will be completely open at the flats. That is provided in case you need to increase resistance fit to centershaft. Too tight and you could ruin the clock's minute hand when setting time. Too loose and minute hand will slip making clock appear to lose time.
    Now notice the single pin. The purpose of that pin is an hourly function. Once every hour it's duty is to advance the starwheel under the snail to the next hour. This should occur near the next hour.
    Now the intermediate wheel - the one with two pins. This one has two functions. Note that one pin is close to the perimeter. One is further away. The one further away lifts the strike lever just a little to strike once on the half hour. The other is closer to the perimeter so it can lift the strike lever higher, release the rack, and prepare to strike the hour.
    From previous:
    but I'm not exactly clear on how the levers work. A blown up picture would help.
    Did that clear anything up or are you more interested in the interaction of levers and wheels?

  12. #12

    Default Re: Gustav Becker Exercise (By: Scottie-TX)

    Quote Originally Posted by Scottie-TX View Post
    Now a few words about those two wheels we removed.
    The minute cannon - the one with a long shaft and a flat on it. That flat is on both sides. Some will be completely open at the flats. That is provided in case you need to increase resistance fit to centershaft. Too tight and you could ruin the clock's minute hand when setting time. Too loose and minute hand will slip making clock appear to lose time.
    Now notice the single pin. The purpose of that pin is an hourly function. Once every hour it's duty is to advance the starwheel under the snail to the next hour. This should occur near the next hour.
    Now the intermediate wheel - the one with two pins. This one has two functions. Note that one pin is close to the perimeter. One is further away. The one further away lifts the strike lever just a little to strike once on the half hour. The other is closer to the perimeter so it can lift the strike lever higher, release the rack, and prepare to strike the hour.
    From previous:

    Did that clear anything up or are you more interested in the interaction of levers and wheels?
    There's the cute-little-handle lever with a pivot pin near the edge of the plate. There's the long lever that goes over to lift the rack hook. There's a lever that gets lifted by the minute wheel pin. There's a leaf-shaped lever that rests on the cute-little-handle pivot pin. I can't tell which of them are a part of each other. Is the pivot for the minute-wheel lever attached to the plate? Or just to the levers?
    1. Check out the Repair Hints & How-To's forum. You may find your answer there.

  13. #13
    Registered user. Scottie-TX's Avatar
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    Default Re: Gustav Becker Exercise (By: bangster)

    O.K. BONG; Here's the backplate.
    Now as for your second list of questions - let's be sure I understand the focus or goal of your questions. Are you asking the terminology of these parts? The purpose of these parts? A detailed description of how they behave and contribute? All of these? Is your tutorial on a Grand Sonnerie in the terminology section of repair hints applicable here? I believe it contains all the parts common here to a strike only movement.
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  14. #14

    Default Re: Gustav Becker Exercise (By: Scottie-TX)

    Sorry for not making myself clear. A picture will help.

    Attachment 184891
    Does pivot pin A serve just to connect levers together? Or is it attached to the plate? If attached to the plate, and if B and C are parts of the same bit of metal, then it's impossible for the minute wheel pin to lift B, because C is blocked by the pin it's resting on. Please enlighten. (Grand Sonnerie has no similar structure.)
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    1. Check out the Repair Hints & How-To's forum. You may find your answer there.

  15. #15

    Default Re: Gustav Becker Exercise (By: bangster)

    Quote Originally Posted by bangster View Post
    Sorry for not making myself clear. A picture will help.

    Attachment 184891
    Does pivot pin A serve just to connect levers together? Or is it attached to the plate? If attached to the plate, and if B and C are parts of the same bit of metal, then it's impossible for the minute wheel pin to lift B, because C is blocked by the pin it's resting on. Please enlighten. (Grand Sonnerie has no similar structure.)
    Bang,

    Levers B and C are indeed one piece. They rotate around pivot A. As the lift pin on the motion works wheel begins to raise lever B, lever C rotates down until it contacts the stop (near your red C ). Pivot A does not go through to the plate. It only connects levers B and C to the Strike Flirt. Once lever C contacts the stop, the pin on the motion works wheel will lift the entire strike flirt, initiating warning and strike. The advantage to levers B and C rotating around A are that the hands can be moved backwards without affecting the strike mechanism.

    HTH.

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