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  1. #1

    Default Howard miller 610-310 stops ticking as you crank center weight.. normal?

    Just wanted to have anyone that owns a Howard miller grandfather clock that's cable driven from the 80s chime in. I recently bought a grandfather clock from a gentleman clock hobbyist that inherited this clock from his gathering law...always had it serviced....looks and works pristine inside and out. I've had it for a few months and noticed just when I crank the center cable weight does the 3rd "seconds" hand in the center stops as I'm winding ...clock stops ticking and if on not fast enough the pendulum loses power by the time I get to the top. This only happens as I wind the center weight....even if I just put pressure with the hand crank or just one click it stops the clock from ticking as I'm doing it and starts when I'm done.


    I've always noticed my dad's Howard miller from the late nineties is also cable driving but the cranks wind the opposite direction as mine...his goes ccw and mine goes cw...anyway his center "seconds" hand does not stop while winding the center weight.


    would like some input from pre nineties owners of Howard miller cable driven grandfather clock regarding this issue.


    thanks

    robert

  2. #2
    Forums Administrator harold bain's Avatar
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    Default Re: Howard miller 610-310 stops ticking as you crank center weight.. normal? (RE: vandelay101)

    Most modern grandfather movements do not have maintaining power to keep the second hand moving while you wind. I would have to know what movement yours has to know if that is true of yours. The movement should have some information on the back plate to identify it. It only happens on the center weight because that one runs the time train. The other two run the chime and strike trains.
    harold bain, Member ch 33
    "If it won't "tick",
    let me "tock" to it"

  3. #3

    Default Re: Howard miller 610-310 stops ticking as you crank center weight.. normal? (RE: harold bain)

    movement 354135f Zealand Michigan made in usa

  4. #4

    Default Re: Howard miller 610-310 stops ticking as you crank center weight.. normal? (RE: vandelay101)

    I've also read Most Howard Miller grandfather clocks are equipped with German made, "Kieninger" mechanism which they own now

  5. #5
    Forums Administrator harold bain's Avatar
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    Default Re: Howard miller 610-310 stops ticking as you crank center weight.. normal? (RE: vandelay101)

    Quote Originally Posted by vandelay101 View Post
    movement 354135f Zealand Michigan made in usa
    There are NO grandfather clock movements made in the USA when yours was made. Were these numbers stamped on the movement? Howard Miler used Hermle, and Urgos movements as well as Kieninger in the period your clock was made.
    harold bain, Member ch 33
    "If it won't "tick",
    let me "tock" to it"

  6. #6

    Default Re: Howard miller 610-310 stops ticking as you crank center weight.. normal? (RE: harold bain)

    The one that winds to the left (anticlockwise) is a Kieninger. The other (older 80s) one is a Hermle.

    All HM clocks made before 1990 are now having, or already had, their movements replaced. They only last about 20 to 25 years. I replaced a 91 and a 87 last week. They were identical 1161 Hermles in very different HM GFs.

    Wish the news were better, Willie X

  7. #7

    Default Re: Howard miller 610-310 stops ticking as you crank center weight.. normal? (RE: harold bain)

    that's what the sticker on the casing says the movement is or at least Howard millers part number.....etched on the brass casing inside the clock says howard miller Zealand Michigan 1161-853 AS made in USA....94cm ...when I google that it says it's a hermle

  8. #8

    Default Re: Howard miller 610-310 stops ticking as you crank center weight.. normal? (RE: vandelay101)

    so is it normal for a hermle 1161 to do as I described ams considered not a problem but rather a normal characteric of that movement? would like someone to actually demonstrate this one their clock

  9. #9

    Default Re: Howard miller 610-310 stops ticking as you crank center weight.. normal? (RE: vandelay101)

    vand,

    No clock is supposed to stop when you wind it. Your clock is probably on the verge of stopping, even when it is actually running. The least disturbance (winding) will cause it to stop.

    Is the pendulum swing more or less than 3 inches, as measured at the bottom of of the rating assembly. Normally it will be about 3" on the 94cm pendulum and about 3 1/4" on a 114cm. However, they can still run with as little as 1/2" swing! Not "run" properly but run week to week. The very short swing is due to maladjustment of the escapement geometry caused by wear. The clock will usually gain time drastically when in this condition.

    Hope this helps, Willie X

  10. #10

    Default Re: Howard miller 610-310 stops ticking as you crank center weight.. normal? (RE: vandelay101)

    To answer your main question:

    When you lift the center weight —either by cranking, or just lifting by hand— it is no longer pulling down on its cable to power the gear train that causes the ticktock. Either it's pulling down on the winding crank, or it's pulling down on your hand. Power isn't getting to the ticktock (the escape wheel). The pendulum may keep swinging, but it won't tick or tock and the hands won't move.

    Without power, the gear train for the ticktock and the hands stops. Inertia keeps the pendulum wagging.

    When you stop cranking, or stop lifting, the weight again powers the gear train.

    When power is restored, the ticktock and hand movement resume.

    But the train won't run without power, and it won't have power unless the weight is pulling on the gear train, rather than on something else.

    You say:
    I've always noticed my dad's Howard miller from the late nineties is also cable driving but the cranks wind the opposite direction as mine...his goes ccw and mine goes cw...anyway his center "seconds" hand does not stop while winding the center weight.
    If so, then your dad's clock has "maintaining power", which is a gizmo* that maintains power to the train while it's being wound. Most grandfather clocks around today don't have one. Yours doesn't.
    =========
    *The gizmo stores power, either in a spring or a small weight, that gets released during winding.
    Last edited by bangster; 11-03-2013 at 11:08 AM.
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  11. #11

    Default Re: Howard miller 610-310 stops ticking as you crank center weight.. normal? (RE: bangster)

    willie... pendulum swing is almost exactly 3 inches

    banger... what you describe makes sense to me.... if I wait till 7 days and the center weight needs would all the way from the bottom the pendulum losers lots of power because as you describe the gear train stops during the process.... when a pendulum loses some power will the weights let it regain power over time again or do you need to restart it ?

  12. #12

    Default Re: Howard miller 610-310 stops ticking as you crank center weight.. normal? (RE: vandelay101)

    Quote Originally Posted by vandelay101 View Post
    willie... pendulum swing is almost exactly 3 inches

    banger... what you describe makes sense to me.... if I wait till 7 days and the center weight needs would all the way from the bottom the pendulum losers lots of power because as you describe the gear train stops during the process.... when a pendulum loses some power will the weights let it regain power over time again or do you need to restart it ?
    Usually, it'll resume without needing a push. It's easy to tell: if it ticks and tocks, it's running and no help is needed. If not, give it a gentle boost in one direction or the other. That won't be needed as long as the pendulum is still swinging nicely when you're done winding. If the pendulum stops, or almost stops, it will always need a push.

    Listen for the tick.
    1. Check out the REPAIR HINTS & HOW-TO's forum! Click Here.

  13. #13

    Default Re: Howard miller 610-310 stops ticking as you crank center weight.. normal? (RE: vandelay101)

    THat 1161 did not have maintaining power. It surely has wear that does not help. Also, if you wind the clock too slowly that increases the chance it will stop

  14. #14

    Default Re: Howard miller 610-310 stops ticking as you crank center weight.. normal? (RE: MARK A. BUTTERWORTH)

    thank you everyone for your input. I now have a better understanding of my clock and am relieved I wasn't doing anything wrong as this is how the clock is meant to operate.
    thanks
    robert

  15. #15
    Registered User Scottie-TX's Avatar
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    Default Re: Howard miller 610-310 stops ticking as you crank center weight.. normal? (RE: vandelay101)

    I reiterate. Some stop. Some can overcome the winding and continue. Again as others counsel. If it's like right on the edge - perhaps needing mtce., etc., the act of winding may stop it. If like some, is robust and efficient, it can overcome stopping long enough to wind. So yeah; It is not uncommon that one stops but may indicate a need for service.

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