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  1. #1

    Default 18 size Bunn Special

    Hello,
    I bought this watch earlier today, and I would like to know a bit more about it. (Rarity, history etc.)Click image for larger version. 

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  2. #2

    Default Re: 18 size Bunn Special (RE: newguy1)

    Nice Bunn Special there and a good representative of Illinois' most popular 18 size railroad grade watch.

    The 18 size 21 jewel Bunn Special was made between about 1894 and 1924 and had the highest total production of the various 18 size Illinois railroad grades. The example you have is the most common of around 20 or so different variants of 18 size 21 jewel Bunn Specials with the most common style of damaskeen pattern (called "bright spotted") and the most common combination of movement markings (full adjustment marking, double roller, and Springfield IL) among bright spotted pattern Bunn Specials. There was a little less than 25,000 total made of this particular variant, they were produced between about 1905 and 1914 and your watch dates to about 1907.

    The dial on your watch with Old English "Illinois Watch Co." signature, Gothic hour numerals, and large bold red 5 minute numerals is correct and is the most typical dial found on 18 size railroad grade between about 1905 and 1914.

    From the photo it appears as if the case may show screwmarks from having held another movement at some time in its past.
    Fred Hansen
    NAWCC #109682

  3. #3

    Smile Re: 18 size Bunn Special (RE: Fred Hansen)

    newguy1:

    To add to the good information that Fred posted, your watch was made in about 1907, give or take a year or two. If you're not familiar with the adjustment terms that are marked on the movement, the "Watch Adjustment" Encyclopedia article may be helpful.

    Your watch case is gold-filled and was made by Joseph Fahys & Co..

    Please feel free to ask about anything that isn't clear to you.

    Good luck,


    Kent
    That guy down in Georgia

  4. #4

    Default Re: 18 size Bunn Special (RE: Fred Hansen)

    There are case marks, but only on one side. If the case has housed other movements before this, how bad is it for the watch nowadays?

  5. #5
    Registered User richiec's Avatar
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    Default Re: 18 size Bunn Special (RE: newguy1)

    It is not "bad" per se, it just may bring the value down a little on the retail market to a true collector as the watch is not all "original". While I like to find watches in their original or original style cases, these days with all of the scrapping going on I feel that you are lucky to find the watch in a decent case these days without spending a small fortune.

  6. #6

    Default Re: 18 size Bunn Special (RE: richiec)

    But if the case were not original, wouldn't the case have marks on both sides?

  7. #7
    Registered user. Squite's Avatar
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    Default Re: 18 size Bunn Special (RE: newguy1)

    If you look close you can see case marks on both sides. They are minimal, but they are there.

  8. #8

    Default Re: 18 size Bunn Special (RE: Squite)

    The dial on your watch with Old English "Illinois Watch Co." signature, Gothic hour numerals, and large bold red 5 minute numerals is correct and is the most typical dial found on 18 size railroad grade between about 1905 and 1914.
    Just a tidbit to add to Fred's xlnt info... this is the "closed top 4" version of dial, there is an Open Top 4 and also a 'serif' 4 version... searching through the archives can uncover some images from the past topics.
    Chapter 17 North Carolina
    http://www.nawcc-carolina17.org/default.htm
    Chapter 149 Early American Watch Club .. Home of Russ Snyder Illinois CD database and Henry Burgell Serial number Look-up ... excellent research resources!
    http://www.nawcc-ch149.com/ http://www.nawcc-ch149.com/pw_dbresearch.html
    Chapter 149 Mentor List http://www.nawcc-ch149.com/mentor.html

  9. #9

    Default Re: 18 size Bunn Special (RE: Kent)

    Is there any way to get an idea of when the case was from?

  10. #10

    Smile Re: 18 size Bunn Special (RE: newguy1)

    The Fahys Montauk case wasn't guaranteed for twenty years until sometime between November 1897 and March 1898. Thus, this is the earliest that it could be.

    Kent
    That guy down in Georgia

  11. #11

    Default Re: 18 size Bunn Special (RE: Kent)

    And they started using a caduceus on their Montauk cases in 1904, so that is the latest it could be...

  12. #12

    Default Re: 18 size Bunn Special (RE: Kent)

    There is no way to find out when the watch was placed in this case right?

  13. #13

    Default Re: 18 size Bunn Special (RE: richiec)

    So if a watch is worth lets say, 100$, how much would it be worth with a unoriginal case?

  14. #14

    Smile Re: 18 size Bunn Special (RE: newguy1)

    Quote Originally Posted by newguy1 View Post
    So if a watch is worth lets say, 100$, how much would it be worth with a unoriginal case?
    I understand that you are only looking for a relative value; a percentage perhaps. Nevertheless, I'm sorry to say that as it is noted in the "No Value Requests" in the top menu bar, we do not discuss the values of horological items in the educational forums. Should you wish, there is a valuation forum entitled “What do you think it is worth?” Click on the Value Seeker drop down menu on the Subscription Page to find the current fee for the use of this service. As an alternative, knowing the proper description of your watch, you should be able to use a Google Search to find similar watches offered by internet dealers, or on eBay, and see what they are selling for. Alternately, check the value in the Complete Price Guide to Watches, No 32, R. Gilbert, T. Engle and C. Shugart, Tinderbox Press, Mount Pleasant, SC, 2012. A new edition comes out each year in January or February, so ask for the latest edition. The book is available at libraries, at most major booksellers and online at the NAWCC Gift Shop (ask about the current edition). Condition matters! Also, a solid gold case instead of a nickel or gold-filled case will make a difference as well.
    Kent
    That guy down in Georgia

  15. #15

    Default Re: 18 size Bunn Special (RE: Kent)

    Is it possible that this is the only case that the movement has been in, considering that the case is older than the movement?

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