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  1. #31

    Default Re: Post Your Gebrder Resch clocks here. (By: Albra)

    The "United States Horological Trademark Index" by Kurtis Meyers might give further clues: Is the trademark "Remember" recorded for Florence Krber and in which year?

    Who owns that index and can look up please?

    albra

  2. #32
    Registered User tarant's Avatar
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    Default Re: Post Your Gebrder Resch clocks here. (By: Albra)

    Resch family were already experienced traders in the second half of the century. Maybe they knew, that the best way is using good, independent sales representatives / importers. That's way they chose mr Pfeil in Vienna and mr Kroeber in NY.

    This book covers a period of years 1870-1960. If this "cooperation" started earlier, may not be included. But this must be checked.
    Regards
    Piotr

  3. #33
    Moderator leeinv66's Avatar
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    Default Re: Post Your Gebrder Resch clocks here. (By: tarant)

    Quote Originally Posted by tarant View Post
    The answer on question "How, where and when the logo Remember was born " may be here.
    http://mb.nawcc.org/showthread.php?9...Wall+Regulator

    Another Kroeber regulator. Unfortunately, there's no view of the whole back plate. The serial number is 60620 only or + 100000 (I don't think +200000). No " Remember " logo on the movement's back plate, only F.Kroeber N.Y. But on the back of the case - blurred stamp with O.V.R.M.Co and GR initials. Is Remember in the upper part ? I think so. Did Kroeber invented this ?

    Attachment 183535
    As a point of interest, I have seen a Vienna Regulator that had F. Kroeber stamped on the bottom of the movement, but it also had the Gebr Resch Remember 100000 trade mark on it as well. Kroeber was doing a lot more than just using unsigned Resch movement. He was stamping his name on anything he could get his hands on!
    Cheers
    Peter R Lee: AKA (Pee-Tah) from Australia

  4. #34

    Default Re: Post Your Gebrder Resch clocks here. (By: leeinv66)

    Quote Originally Posted by leeinv66 View Post
    As a point of interest, I have seen a Vienna Regulator that had F. Kroeber stamped on the bottom of the movement, but it also had the Gebr Resch Remember 100000 trade mark on it as well. Kroeber was doing a lot more than just using unsigned Resch movement. He was stamping his name on anything he could get his hands on!
    Peter, from the 1890s imported clocks in America also had to have the name of the American importer. Those were the rules.

    albra

  5. #35
    Moderator leeinv66's Avatar
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    Default Re: Post Your Gebrder Resch clocks here. (By: Albra)

    Quote Originally Posted by Albra View Post
    Peter, from the 1890s imported clocks in America also had to have the name of the American importer. Those were the rules.

    albra
    Yes, but most retailers of imported clocks satisfied this requirement by printing there name on the dial. Stamping your name on someone else's movement is another story.
    Cheers
    Peter R Lee: AKA (Pee-Tah) from Australia

  6. #36
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    Default Re: Post Your Gebrder Resch clocks here. (By: Albra)

    Quote Originally Posted by Albra View Post
    Peter, from the 1890s imported clocks in America also had to have the name of the American importer. Those were the rules.

    albra
    If this law is in force since 1890, then catalog of Kroeber from 1885 is a proof that he did it for other reasons than the applicable law


    Mariusz

  7. #37

    Default Re: Post Your Gebrder Resch clocks here. (By: Heli)

    Quote Originally Posted by Heli View Post
    If this law is in force since 1890, then catalog of Kroeber from 1885 is a proof that he did it for other reasons than the applicable law Mariusz
    May be, Mariusz.

    But it is also not excluded that Kroeber was involved financially in the company Gebr Resch.

    Salomon Abeles, who had the exclusive distribution rights in Austria-Hungary from 1886-01-01, I suspect it very much. Because Abeles designated by the year 1890 as a clock manufacturer, although he was actually a wholesaler of clocks.

    But now we are already very strong in the area of conjecture. However, would be the brand "Remember" registered in U.S. for Krber, this assumption would gain in probability. Does anyone have the index of Meyers and can look up the brand "Remember"?

    albra

  8. #38
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    Default Re: Post Your Gebrder Resch clocks here. (By: Albra)

    I think you're going in the wrong direction.
    At first : what was produced in a Resch factory?
    At the beginning we are thinking that they produced only weight clock .
    This proved to be untrue.

    Resch produced about 280 000 movements.
    The Kroeber catalog is giving price of $ 25 in 1885.
    In my opinion the amount of profit from the products is 50% too small to maintain the 200 people in company.
    Of course, I used some averaging.
    Therefore, I believe that the factory produced something else.

    Therefore Junghans could say that it produces 100 thousand watches a year.
    In practice, that may be only a parts to the one hundred thousand clocks.
    He could do this because the factory was ready for it.

    As I wrote earlier - IMO factory in Ebensee at the beginning was producing only the parts. It is possible that from the beginning, they were not the only parts for weight clocks.

    It involves a lot of changes. For example -distributors were selling only clocks not the entire production of the company.

    When the market demand for high-quality watches produced by Resch declined, they closed a factory in Vienna (1883 ). Production in Ebensee (because of subcontracting) was able to remain at a high level. So data about production of 12 thousand units are not inconsistent with statistical calculations about six thousand pieces weight clock

    Mariusz

  9. #39

    Default Re: Post Your Gebrder Resch clocks here. (By: Heli)

    Quote Originally Posted by Heli View Post
    I think you're going in the wrong direction.
    At first : what was produced in a Resch factory?
    At the beginning we are thinking that they produced only weight clock .
    This proved to be untrue.

    Resch produced about 280 000 movements.
    The Kroeber catalog is giving price of $ 25 in 1885.
    In my opinion the amount of profit from the products is 50% too small to maintain the 200 people in company.
    Of course, I used some averaging.
    Therefore, I believe that the factory produced something else.

    Therefore Junghans could say that it produces 100 thousand watches a year.
    In practice, that may be only a parts to the one hundred thousand clocks.
    He could do this because the factory was ready for it.

    As I wrote earlier - IMO factory in Ebensee at the beginning was producing only the parts. It is possible that from the beginning, they were not the only parts for weight clocks.

    It involves a lot of changes. For example -distributors were selling only clocks not the entire production of the company.

    When the market demand for high-quality watches produced by Resch declined, they closed a factory in Vienna (1883 ). Production in Ebensee (because of subcontracting) was able to remain at a high level. So data about production of 12 thousand units are not inconsistent with statistical calculations about six thousand pieces weight clock

    Mariusz
    Mariusz, very good thoughts! Thank you!

    But we must not overestimate the ratios of the 1880s. Not the technical possibilities and not the degree of division of labor. Lenzkirch we know of many more workers significantly less movements in the year have been made ​​at about the same time as Gebr Resch. I therefore see no reason that Gebr Resch said to have made ​​things even more.

    I want to especially point out the corporate form of the company Gebr Resch: By the documents of Piotr (Piotr thanks again!) we know that the company was an "Open Society" by Austrian law. Initially, only two shareholders are mentioned, in the 1870s then already 4 shareholders. And by the 1880s, I've no knowledge, but why should not Abeles or Krber been another shareholder.

    albra

  10. #40
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    Default Re: Post Your Gebrder Resch clocks here. (By: Albra)

    Albra
    A huge part of the production of clocks in the nineteenth century was based on co-operation.
    Lenzkirch produced a lot of the french mechanisms - not everything was made by his own.
    Since the mid-nineteenth century there was a clear direction: cheaper and more.

    Assuming that Resch produced in Ebensee 6000 watches a year, daily production was ONLY 20 units.
    Factory in Vienna produced about 15 units a day, and did that with 80 people !

    I don't see the direct connection beetwen the composition of the shareholders Gebr.Resch and the production process in their factories. Business is business.
    They were producing to make money, not to go down in history as charity company.

    If you're comparing the Resch movements it would appear that the real Viennese Resch end up somewhere at the number 30xxx, and regulators are up to the level of several thousand.

    This means that the production of real regulators was to c.a. 1865.
    Then he began to simplify and prepared for mass a production on a large scale.

    Mariusz

  11. #41

    Default Re: Post Your Gebrder Resch clocks here. (By: Heli)

    The first objective of a company is to survive in the market. And in order to survive, it needs a product and the corresponding knowledge in the manufacture and also the sales opportunities. At Resch it was so obvious that the distribution had to be assigned to secure sales. And the granting of distribution rights of a successful product was usually also used to enter a shareholder and therefore money in the operation to support the development of the company.

    We (I) dont know the technological level of the company Gebr. Resch in the year 1875. Was it even more at the level of a manufactory (with clocks from cast parts) or was it already a clock factory, with clock parts have been punched.

    Piotr, Mariusz a very important question: the gears of the early Resch clocks were already stamped or cast yet?

    For comparison, the first clock in Germany with stamped gears is mentioned until 1861, before all clocks were manufactured with cast gears. But how were the conditions in Austria and especially at Gebr Resch?

    albra

  12. #42

    Default Re: Post Your Gebrder Resch clocks here. (By: Albra)

    To make things a little less transparent: Both Gebr Resch called themselves "First Viennese clocks factory", as well as another operation in Vienna: Johann Wecera (see the entry in the "lexikon"
    Since Johann Wecera has participated in various commercial and world exhibitions with his clocks, his operation could be even older than the Resch Gebr. But we can not check today probably.

    albra

  13. #43
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    Default Re: Post Your Gebrder Resch clocks here. (By: Albra)

    I have no so early GR movements. It'll take a lot of time to check the question of the gears production technology.

    Deutsche Gesellschaft fur Chronometrie published recently digital version of the Oesterreichisch - ungarische Uhrmacher Zeitung (1882 - 1913). This may be a very important source, useful in explaing some questions.
    Even the only posted page contains very interesting ad from Ebensee. From vienna regulators to luminescent alarm clocks...
    http://www.dg-chrono.info/images/sto...eigenseite.jpg
    Regards
    Piotr

  14. #44
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    Default Re: Post Your Gebrder Resch clocks here. (By: tarant)

    An interesting advert which appears not to be dated but tells us Junghans were making alarm clocks in Ebensee after the takeover of Resch. I don't know for sure but afaik Resch did not make such clocks which suggests Junghans introduced them.
    Jonathan.

  15. #45
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    Default Re: Post Your Gebrder Resch clocks here. (By: jmclaugh)

    Oh, I forgot. This ad is from the year 1912. From the Doug's post we know that regulators were produced in Ebensee still in 1910. Probably in very limited quantities.

    http://mb.nawcc.org/showthread.php?3...l=1#post241904
    Regards
    Piotr

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