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View Full Version : New guy to P watch repair...experiences and some questions


MikeP
07-01-2001, 12:24 AM
Recently acquired a Hamilton 992 that I want to clean/lubricate. I service/repair my own antique clocks but this would be my first foray into P watches and, because of their size, it was (is) a bit intimidating. So before ripping open this really nice 992 I decided to find a couple of cheap old non-working pocket watches and see if I could repair them.

For a total of around 65 bucks on ebay I got an old Waltham circa 1905, an Elgin from around the same period and a Baby Ben. They didn't run at all.

I don't have any pocket watch repair books but I figured, "what the heck, it's just a small clock!" So, I set to work. All 3 watches were incredibly crudded up inside - most of the pivots were locked in place by congealed oil but there was no apparent damage. I disassembled the Waltham and Elgin, cleaned and lubricated them, and reassembled. They both ran fine, but...

The Waltham would only run for a few hours. I noticed that when winding it would wind normally for a few turns and then "slip" Figuring it was a mainspring problem, I removed the barrel and found that the spring had broken about 3" from the hole end. It appeared fine when I originally removed, cleaned and replaced it. I did not use (don't have) a spring winder but was very careful (I thought). The spring didn't break when I installed it but perhaps I strained it somehow when placing it back in the barrel Is a spring winder suitable for pocket watches necessary to ensure this doesn't happen? I don't use them for clocks-been doing them by hand for 30 years with no problems. I found that Frei and Borel listed replacement springs for the watch. Is this the best source for these?

The Elgin process also went well, cleaned and lubed and running fine all night when lying on its back. However, when lying on its face, it won't run nearly as long. Why is that? Since clocks only have to run in one position I've never dealt with this problem.

Interesting stuff... I lost the tapered pin holding the hairspring to the cock on the Waltham and had to make a new one. I could just barely see the darn thing with the naked eye. But I managed to file a new pin down and fit it. And those little hairsprings scare me to death!

Great fun though!

Oh, the Baby Ben... I dumped the (non-disassembled) movement in a can of naptha, sloshed it around for a couple of minutes, dried it with compressed air, sprayed the thing with WD-40, it's been running fine ever since! :smile:

No, I won't do that with the 992!

MikeP
07-01-2001, 12:24 AM
Recently acquired a Hamilton 992 that I want to clean/lubricate. I service/repair my own antique clocks but this would be my first foray into P watches and, because of their size, it was (is) a bit intimidating. So before ripping open this really nice 992 I decided to find a couple of cheap old non-working pocket watches and see if I could repair them.

For a total of around 65 bucks on ebay I got an old Waltham circa 1905, an Elgin from around the same period and a Baby Ben. They didn't run at all.

I don't have any pocket watch repair books but I figured, "what the heck, it's just a small clock!" So, I set to work. All 3 watches were incredibly crudded up inside - most of the pivots were locked in place by congealed oil but there was no apparent damage. I disassembled the Waltham and Elgin, cleaned and lubricated them, and reassembled. They both ran fine, but...

The Waltham would only run for a few hours. I noticed that when winding it would wind normally for a few turns and then "slip" Figuring it was a mainspring problem, I removed the barrel and found that the spring had broken about 3" from the hole end. It appeared fine when I originally removed, cleaned and replaced it. I did not use (don't have) a spring winder but was very careful (I thought). The spring didn't break when I installed it but perhaps I strained it somehow when placing it back in the barrel Is a spring winder suitable for pocket watches necessary to ensure this doesn't happen? I don't use them for clocks-been doing them by hand for 30 years with no problems. I found that Frei and Borel listed replacement springs for the watch. Is this the best source for these?

The Elgin process also went well, cleaned and lubed and running fine all night when lying on its back. However, when lying on its face, it won't run nearly as long. Why is that? Since clocks only have to run in one position I've never dealt with this problem.

Interesting stuff... I lost the tapered pin holding the hairspring to the cock on the Waltham and had to make a new one. I could just barely see the darn thing with the naked eye. But I managed to file a new pin down and fit it. And those little hairsprings scare me to death!

Great fun though!

Oh, the Baby Ben... I dumped the (non-disassembled) movement in a can of naptha, sloshed it around for a couple of minutes, dried it with compressed air, sprayed the thing with WD-40, it's been running fine ever since! :smile:

No, I won't do that with the 992!

doug sinclair
07-01-2001, 01:02 AM
Mike,

The mainspring in your Waltham is probably a steel one. I have known it to happen that, when a watch with an old steel mainspring is serviced and returned to running condition, these steel springs will occasionally break as yours did. This even happens when you use a mainspring winder by the way. Replace it with a modern alloy spring.

The Elgin problem is the color of another horse! Some things to look for.

1./ A wobbling balance wheel barely touching something (pallet bridge, pallet bridge screw [be certain the pallet bridge is DOWN completely at both steady pins], pillar plate).

2./ Interference between the roller table and the pallet fork. Remove the pallets, re-insert the balance and see if the problem still exists.

3./ Sometimes a slightly damaged balance pivot can cause similar problems. For example, if a pivot has become slightly swollen resulting from a fall face UP damaging the TOP pivot which binds in the hole jewel when running face down.

4./ A timing washer hanging out past the edge of the balance wheel rim and rubbing on something.

5./ Loose balance wheel screw(s).

And, if you ever tried mainspring winders for clock and watch repair, you'd NEVER go back to manipulating mainsprings by hand IMHO!

Let us know what you find.

Regards,
DEoug S.

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Steve Maddox
07-01-2001, 10:19 AM
Mike,

As Doug suggested, the problem with your Elgin appears to be much more complicated than the one with your Waltham. In my opinion, the most likely causes are a bent balance staff pivot, a lower balance staff pivot that is too short, or a lower (dial side) balance cap jewel that is set too far from the hole jewel. In any of these instances, it's quite likely that the conical portion of your balance staff is binding in the lower jewel hole.

As for your Waltham, however, if it really is a Waltham, you probably shouldn't have had to unpin the hairspring in order to remove the balance. Even the very early Walthams have hairspring studs are held in place by screws, and those should be loosened (and removed if necessary) rather than unpinning the hairspring. Usually, unpinning the hairsprings is only necessary on foreign made watches, and it's possible that yours may be a "fake" Waltham, if you really had to do that.

By the way, I think you were very wise to "practice" on a couple of cheaper watches before working on your 992!

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Steve Maddox
VP, NAWCC Chapter #62
North Little Rock, Arkansas

[This message has been edited by Steve Maddox (edited 07-01-2001).]

MikeP
07-01-2001, 11:40 AM
Doug, Steve -

Thanks for the information, I really appreciate it. I'm sure the Waltham is real - I noticed the screw that held the little block to which the mainspring is pinned but for some reason (which now totally escapes me) I decided to unpin the spring rather than unscrew the screw. It's a mistake I won't make again!

Both of these watches are
hunter-cased sidewinders (I'm learning this pocket watch lingo) so from what I've gathered, they aren't worth much anyway. Serial #s are:
Waltham - 14203007, Elgin - 14019473

The Waltham looks very nice and is complete although I have to reglue the crystal. I see several types of crystal glue are available. Do you recommend any particular one?

The Elgin is missing the seconds hand, the front cover's hinge is broken (cover is present but not attached), and the crystal is missing. I may try to repair the case/cover just to see if I can. (Jeez, now I have to learn Jewelry repair :smile: )

This is a great website and I really appreciate your willingness to help a pocket watch newbie!