AT&Co grade key winds [Archive] - National Association of Watch and Clock Collectors Message Board

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peg leg

02-19-2006, 05:08 PM

I have an Appleton Tracy and Company grade Waltham key wind I feel sure was made for the export market (Brittish). The inner case markings are AM Watch Co. Waltham, Mass R240 Sterling silver. Serial number on this example is 983231. The Waltham data base has no indication of production runs flagged for watches geared to the export market. If I could hear from fellow collectors regarding this AT&Co grade key wind within this SN range it would be much appreciated. Thanks in advance if you can assist.

Keith R...

http://static.flickr.com/35/102007877_5addad3a2c_o.jpg

http://static.flickr.com/32/102007876_5cd1be05ff_o.jpg

http://static.flickr.com/33/102007873_d50a418f05_o.jpg

peg leg

02-19-2006, 05:08 PM

Jerry Treiman

02-19-2006, 05:16 PM

What leads you to believe this one was meant for export?

peg leg

02-19-2006, 05:57 PM

Just kinda looks like it Jerry. But hey, I've been wrong before (been married twice). Your thoughts appreciated.....

Keith R...

http://static.flickr.com/42/102035866_e0d8452be1.jpg

peg leg

02-19-2006, 11:15 PM

Jerry, note I was also wrong on the Dublin verge below on this page (only the case made it to the 18th century). John Pavlic and Frank Menez both helped with that watch.

Here is the case marking (might need a magnifier).

Keith R...

http://static.flickr.com/24/102105998_8f22a76e85.jpg

John F

02-20-2006, 02:46 AM

Actually, the Waltham database does have an indication of watches made for the English market - an "Eng" in the comment field, as in this example (http://www.nawcc-info.org/WalthamDB/LookupSN.asp?Serial=1542601). It's probably not comprehensive, though (I don't know if there's any way to know for sure), but it's one indication. I'd also think that another clue that a watch had been originally destined for sale in England would be that it's in a Dennison case. Just a guess.

Wes

02-20-2006, 03:17 AM

I wonder how many of the AT&Co movements were predetermined to be exports.
To me, there are 3 factors that when put together make me think this would not have been an export model. I am going out on a limb here, but:
1. There seem to be a lot of Home grade exports, while I don't recall seeeing AT&Co marked 57 exports.
2. I would almost think that the export dial would not be signed.
3. Also, if it were an export model, I would think the case would not be a AWCo case. I would think it would have been cased oversees.

This is all my opinion of what I remember seeing over the last few years. I am certainly not an expert (like Hanson and others).
I know the style of the case makes it seem like an English case, and it is sterling (as opposed to coin) which only furthers the hint of it being an export, but I am not conviced.
In fact, I am not convinced either way!

peg leg

02-20-2006, 03:44 AM

John, thanks for noting the comment field for eng as in your Hillside 14 size example. Note that for 983231 there is nothing in the comment field.

Wes, glad to hear you chime in since you serviced the watch. Smells like export but it's up in the air, which is why I wanted to post on this message board to get some opinions. Thanks for responding. Jon did render an opinion on Web horology.........could be an export watch (but nothings definate). Another mystery watch perhaps with a hint of Brittish style.

Keith R...

Wes

02-20-2006, 03:54 AM

Well, if anyone knows it would be Jon Hanson. He has been researching these for the vast majority of his life!

peg leg

02-20-2006, 04:37 AM

Wes, not discounting Jon's vast experience at all. I was hoping that with different opinions on this board an example would be shown within same serial number range and by viewing case style would debunk my thoughts that it could be Brittish or strengthen my thoughts and more than likely is.........So Jon in his experience of could be, John F. point about Dennison case yours on dial, and Waltham case I would lean "not" unless an example in an original sterling case shows up looking like this one(doubt I get that lucky). Having seen no examples in 149/web horology in this sn range, thought I'd try here.

Keith R...

Wes

02-20-2006, 04:56 AM

I missed that part about the Dennison case in John's post. I was thinking the same thing.

I know you aren't discounting anyone's expertise! :smile:

Wes

02-20-2006, 04:57 AM

the bottom line is that it is a "darn" cool case for a cool watch!

peg leg

02-20-2006, 12:43 PM

Thanks Wes, Web horology has been a great learning ground.Love this watch myself. Keith R...

hc3

02-22-2006, 11:33 PM

If the case had been offered for sale in England, it almost certainly would have been hallmarked. As far as I know, at that time Waltham didn't have a sales outlet in Britain, and so the only way Walthams would have gon there would be as purchases by a private importer.

I get the impression that American watches didn't take off in Europe until the late 1870s or 1880s. When I have been to clock and watch fairs in Britain, I see lots of Walthams from about 1880 on, but very very few pre 1870. I have never seen one pre 1870 in a contemporary and appropriately hallmarked case.

peg leg

02-23-2006, 02:21 AM

hc3 Thanks for the feedback. I also received this feedback from Jon Hanson on web horology;

"Since ATs are high grade as compared to other lesser grades, in my opinion these were not necessarily exported in the large quantities that others certainly were".
__________________
Jon Hanson

As to this particular Waltham movement I believe year of manufacture is about 1877. The conclusion is American cased watch for the US market. It does look a bit different than other OF key wind cases of the period.

Thanks again.......Keith R...