Strange Kern & Sohne dome clock

[tiidmasine]

Hi there, my name is Peter Bokma, my nickname "tiidmasine" is Frysian for "timemachine". I'm living in the Netherlands (Europe). Clocks are my hobby. There are more then 30 mechanical clocks in our house (9 anniversary clocks).

One clock is a (glass) dome clock made by Kern & Sohne Germany but it is NOT an anniversary clock. I even don't know yet if it runs 8 or 30 days....:eek: I've searched the web for this type of clock but could not find it. I've sent an email to Kern & Sohne Germany but they did not reply mail (yet). Maybe somebody here recognize this clock and can tell something about it. Period of manufacturing could be in the mid 60ties.

I bought his clock from an interet marketplace for $ 18,00. Previous owner had painted it white :confused:. I disassembled the clock and cleaned it so it's original again. It's a midsize domeclock. Lets show some pictures:

http://www.peters-computerservice.nl/kens.jpg
White painted........

http://www.peters-computerservice.nl/kens2.jpg

After cleaning........

http://www.peters-computerservice.nl/kens3a.jpg
And the back.

[tiidmasine]

Today I bought from same internet marketplace a second one: exact the same clock mentioned in topicstart. (Needs no paint removal :coolsign:)
It's a pitty nobody replies on my question. I asked the same question on a forum in the Netherlands. Also no reaction.
Please let me know: this is not an interesting clock or I asked a stupid question :whistle:

[shutterbug]

The lack of response is not because of the question. In my case, it's because I've never seen one like that. I almost suspect a reworked movement - but if so the guy really knows what he's doing. Interesting clock!

[harold bain]

Hi, Peter, welcome to the message board. Perhaps no one has seen a clock like yours. It looks like it has all the basic parts of a 400 day clock, except the pendulum and crutch are not the same.

[tiidmasine]

Thank you both for an answer. I found at Ebay something simular: also made by Kern but this clock has something more...... Seller writes he could not find an identical clock on the world wide web......:


http://www.ebay.nl/itm/260996864367?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649 (http://www.ebay.nl/itm/260996864367?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649)

[tonyboy]

Hello do you think it could be a home made jobby, I thought of something simillar, of putting bob pendulum on a 400 day frame,
By the way i don't think your allowed to put active auctons on the forum, only when they have finnished
And welcome to the board
It has the Shabby Chic look

[shutterbug]

Hello do you think it could be a home made jobby, I thought of something simillar, of putting bob pendulum on a 400 day frame,

That would be a real job, Tony. The original parts are made for eight or ten escapements per minute, so you'd have to make a lot of changes to reduce it for a short pendulum like is shown. That's the reason I commented above on the maker's obvious knowledge of clocks (or it's really gaining time :))

[tiidmasine]

No Tony, it's not a home job: today I saw the third one on a Dutch marketplace. I also searched German Ebay but nothing simular. Maybe, maybe they where made as relation gift. I saw them in Holland only.......
Oh, I did not buy this third one :cuckoo: I think two is enough.

Even the one on Ebay (see link above) looks not like homemade......... (For same reason shutterbug mentioned)

[shutterbug]

Nah, that's not the same one. Different movement altogether. The original post shows a 400 day movement, rear wind, time only.

[tiidmasine]

What I ment to say with the link is that Kern produced not only anniversary clocks but also clocks what are rare (?!?)

[shutterbug]

I'm not convinced that the link shows a Kern clock. It almost looks like a Hermle or other modern movement fitted to a kern 400 day dial and case. Wish we could see the back plate better :)

[tiidmasine]

Tried to enlarge the back platine with photozoom. Result was not readable. sorry.

[John Hubby]

Nah, that's not the same one. Different movement altogether. The original post shows a 400 day movement, rear wind, time only.Shutt, I think the point about the eBay clock is that it also is advertised as a Kern. I tried to decipher the stamping on the back, it "looks" like Kern & Söhne but can't make out the rest. There is a model number stamp at the bottom that I believe says "W251", don't know if this has any relation to Hermle or not.

Regarding the original clock posted, it is "not" a 400-Day clock movement. It has one gear less than a 400-Day (four instead of five), also the plate layout is unlike anything in the RG made by Kern. The anchor pivot is in a fixed peninsula right at the top edge of the back plate, with the escape wheel arbor pivot set below the cut-out. If there are eccentrics they must be on the front plate. About the only similarity is that it looks like the center (minute) arbor is an idler as per the Kern miniatures that have an eccentric for the scape arbor (Plates 1406B, 1406D). It's a lot more like the Schatz 8-Day balance wheel clocks as far as train configuration is concerned, or like the JUF Louvre model No. 604 in the 1910 JUF catalog that is an 8-Day gravity pendulum clock but looks all the world like a 400-Day but with a gravity pendulum. It appears to me to be a purpose-built 8-Day pendulum movement that happens to be the same size as a 400-Day.

[tiidmasine]

This Kern clock looks "epedemical" :excited: Today I saw another piece on a Dutch marketplace. (That's number 4 !!) Seller mentioned she bought the clock in 1968. I've sent her an email for more details. When I get relevant information you all wil read it here.

Thanks John for more detailled info !!

[MartinM]

It may very well have had a limited original market like certain Schatz midgets of the late '60s.
I have a "mod" style carriage type clock that I'm pretty sure was never sold in the US or via AAFES.

[tiidmasine]

That could explain why nobody here saw this clock before. The Netherlands is a dot on earth :whistle: (I live in that dot) Here we have a "clock community" too but...... YES !! Very tiny :bigsmile: And NO, nobody there recognized this Kern clock.
There's also no change we see this clock on Ebay. All sellers I found tried to sell it on a local internet marketplace. Many other anniversary clocks where taken to the USA by veterans (world war 2 I think)

[John Hubby]

This Kern clock looks "epedemical" :excited: Today I saw another piece on a Dutch marketplace. (That's number 4 !!) Seller mentioned she bought the clock in 1968. I've sent her an email for more details. When I get relevant information you all wil read it here.

Thanks John for more detailled info !!TM, please do post what you find out from the seller for her clock.

I've been able to get the info stamped on the back of the two-train striking Kern, as follows:

Kern u Sohne
Germany
No(0)Jewels Unadjusted
16P67239

No other markings. So, it appears ot have been made by Kern, or for Kern with their ID stamped on. I am not familiar with Hermle numbers, does this one have anything to do with them?

[tiidmasine]

Seller of the 4th clock has replied my questions. She bought the Kern in 1969 in a Dutch juwelerstore. That confirms almost the limmited market for this clock. I've mailed the seller to put the clock on Ebay. :whistle: