E. Cook(e) of Rochester, NY?

[cogito]

I was fortunate enough to find what I think is an early American verge fusee from NY. The watch is quite unusual as it has a "stop lever" and seconds dial. The "stop lever" is positioned at 4 o'clock, which when engaged (by moving from side-to-side) will cause a small brass wire to stop the crown wheel. The watch is signed, E. Cooke Rochester and has both Tompion and Bosley regulators. The pair case, which is English with V.R. case maker initials, had a watch paper from a store in Le Roy, NY. I looked up Le Roy on a map and it is only 30 mi. South of Rochester.

So, the big question, and hopefully some of you people more knowledgible than I can answer, is this an English or American watch? And, just who was E. Cook(e)?

A picture of the movement is at the following address:
http://www.telepsychology.net/temp/FUSEEFINEB.jpg

And, a picture of the watch face and pair case w/ watch paper is at:
http://www.telepsychology.net/temp/FUSEEFINEA.jpg


Thanks,
Jeff Browndyke
Mystic, CT.

[cogito]

I was fortunate enough to find what I think is an early American verge fusee from NY. The watch is quite unusual as it has a "stop lever" and seconds dial. The "stop lever" is positioned at 4 o'clock, which when engaged (by moving from side-to-side) will cause a small brass wire to stop the crown wheel. The watch is signed, E. Cooke Rochester and has both Tompion and Bosley regulators. The pair case, which is English with V.R. case maker initials, had a watch paper from a store in Le Roy, NY. I looked up Le Roy on a map and it is only 30 mi. South of Rochester.

So, the big question, and hopefully some of you people more knowledgible than I can answer, is this an English or American watch? And, just who was E. Cook(e)?

A picture of the movement is at the following address:
http://www.telepsychology.net/temp/FUSEEFINEB.jpg

And, a picture of the watch face and pair case w/ watch paper is at:
http://www.telepsychology.net/temp/FUSEEFINEA.jpg


Thanks,
Jeff Browndyke
Mystic, CT.

[Tom McIntyre]

Your watch seems to be a nice example of an imported English verge with an American name on the plate. This was common practice up to the time that machine made watches took over the market here.

The solid foot and fairly small balance cock place the date around 1790 to 1820. Is there a hallmark in one or both of the cases?

The stop or hack mechanism is common to almost all the English watches from this period.

------------------
Tom McIntyre
Past President, NAWCC Chapters 174 and 87
Member Chapters 8, 87, 149, and 174
Pocket Horology Web (http://www.pocketwatch.org)
Tommy the JOAT's Web (http://www.AWCo.org)

[This message has been edited by Tom McIntyre (edited 04-07-2002).]

[BMW]

Volume II of "Watchmakers and Clockmakers of the World" by Brian Loomes shows an Erastus Cooke doing business in Rochester from 1815-1845. I do not have the expertise in telling whether or not it was made in the USA or imported and privately labeled.
B

[4thdimension]

Hi Jeff,
Very surely an English watch which was imported before American companies were around to provide jewelers with
"contract watches". Sometimes these have been referred to as "colonial" watches which is kind of goofy . Its really
nice to have that paper in there as it tells a bit more of the watches story. If you look under the paper I suspect you would see
the English hallmarks which would identify the date the case was made, where it was assayed and the casemaker
too (with a bit of luck). If you want to post the case back pic you could probably get
opinions on these things.
-Cort

------------------
<[';')>

[cogito]

Thanks to all for responding. The case is most assuredly English, as it has the Standing Lion mark, Chester Assay mark, and a date mark of 1825 (Cryllic "C"). The case maker initials are V.R. Any ideas on the case maker's name?

So, it appears that Erastus Cooke imported the movement to NY, then etched his name in the plate...making the watch English made & American marketed.

Thanks to all for the help and knowledge. I've really enjoyed being a new member of NAWCC and have found fellow members to be warm, generous, and wise in their advice.

Regards,
Jeff Browndyke

[John Pavlik]

Hi Jeff

Just an add to the disussion. There is a town of Rochester located approx. 25 miles east of London in the UK. Maybe its the photo but the first initial of the watch signature appears to me as a C, could that be.

Regards,
John Pavlik

[cogito]

John,

The initial is clearly an E, which looks like a lower case letter done in a large size. I thought about the Rochester, England angle, as well. That's why the name of this gentleman was so important. Apparently, there isn't an E. Cooke listed as a European maker.

I've posted a picture of the case hallmarks, which are the same for the pair case and watch case at the following link:
http://www.telepsychology.net/temp/FUSEEFINED.jpg

I sure wish there was more history about Mr. Cooke. That, to me, is the most fascinating aspect to watch collecting...the history of those who created or owned a particular watch.

Regards,
Jeff

[John Pavlik]

Hi Jeff

Your case maker is for Vale and Rotherman of Coventry. The letter hallmark looks like and S, but it is difficult to make out the font. They were active 1820's to approx 1840.. John

[cogito]

Actually, the date letter is a faint "c" in old German-like script, which I think would date it to 1825. Which, in turn, jives with what you reported.

Thanks to all for the help. I plan on doing a genealogical search on Mr. Cooke and will report what I find to the message board.

Regards,
Jeff

[Jerry Freedman]

What about the hands on this watch?

[Julian Smith]

"Spittlers-Bailey" lists Erastus Cook as in Rochester, Ca. 1815-1850. In partnership with Ezra B. Booth,Ca.1838-1850,in selling and repairing watches,clocks,silver spoons etc.
J Smith

[cogito]

For those following this thread, here's what I found out about Mr. Cook(e) on the LDS genealogical records website:

Erastus COOK (AFN: 1N30-9VM) Pedigree
Sex: M Family

Birth: 3 Feb 1792
Pompey, Onondaga Co., Ny.
Death: 29 Apr 1864
New York, Ny.
Burial: 1864
Mt.hope Cem., Rochester, Monroe Co., Ny.

Parents:
Father: Selah COOK (AFN: 1N30-36G) Family
Mother: Lucy BECKWITH (AFN: 1N30-B48)

Marriage(s):
Spouse: Clarissa Strong REMINGTON (AFN: 1N30-9WT) Family
Marriage: 25 Sep 1825

The pedigree file gets more detailed and even traces Mr. Cook(e)'s lineage back to Plymouth, and then on to England.

Regarding the watch hands, they came with the watch and look original, though I haven't seen this hand type before.

Regards,
Jeff