AWCo, Waltham **need info, year**

[rico]

http://www.users.qwest.net/~ffcenters/sideviewPW.jpg

i've looked at a few pages and photos and most of the WALTHAMS i saw were with the winding knob vertically above the logo whereas my PW has the winder to the right (3 o'clock)

any info on the age would be appreciated..there is also inscription of an "elk" on the back....
thanks,
Rich Polson

[Kugler77]

Hello Rich,

If you want any information about the age of the movement you need the serial number from the movement!
If you have that number, typ it in here:
Waltahm Serial (http://www.nawcc-info.org/WalthamDB/LookupSN.asp)

Peter

[Tom McIntyre]

Watches with a winding stem at 3:00 were designed to be put in a closed cover "hunting" case.

[Kent]

Hi Rich:

Welcome to the NAWCC Pocket Watch Message Board!

The American Waltham Watch Co. (Waltham, MA) had its origins in the 1850's. It was the first successful company in America to manufacture watches in mass production using machinery to make identical (or at least, near identical) parts. Over the next hundred years or so of its existence, its output of jeweled watches (over 34 million) was only exceeded by one other company, the National Watch Co. at Elgin, IL. Commonly referred to as "Waltham," the company made a full line of watches ranging from modest, affordable watches to some of the finest watches made in this country. An 1884 article on the American Watch Co. (http://members.aol.com/gfrauen10/walthampage.html) is available on Greg Frauenhoff's website.

You can find out some basic facts about your Waltham watch by entering the serial number on the movement (the "works") in the field on the Serial Number link accessable from the NAWCC Information Storage (http://www.nawcc-info.org/WalthamDB/walsernum.htm) website. Don't use any commas in entering the serial number.

You might find the information in "How To Open A Pocket Watch Case (http://k_singer.home.comcast.net/opening_pocket_watch_cases__k.htm)", or Opening the Case (http://www.ozdoba.net/swisswatch/pocket_howto.html#open) useful.

There is also a Glossary (http://www.nawcc-info.org/WalthamDB/Glossary.htm) of the terms provided by the serial number lookup. Note: When a number appears by itself in the Comment Column, it is the page in the factory serial list where the entry and explaination appeared. i.e. "Comment 42" is on page 42 of “Serial Numbers With Description of Waltham Watch Movements,” Waltham Watch Co., Waltham, MA, 1954, (commonly referred to as "The Gray Book"). Or, a similar search may be done at the Swiss - Waltham Website (http://www.waltham.ch/cgi/waltham/search.asp). This website also has a short history of the American Waltham Watch Co. and other interesting information. But, as Tom McIntyre Pointed Out (http://nawcc-mb.infopop.cc/groupee/forums/a/tpc/f/4316035461/m/6771072851/r/5581066951#5581066951), more complete information is available at the NAWCC Information Storage website.

Should the date not be listed in the search of the NAWCC Information Storage - Waltham Serial Number Data Base, Oldwatch.com's Waltham Production Date Chart (http://www.oldwatch.com/walthamdate.html), or the PocketWatchSite's Waltham Date Table (http://www.pocketwatchsite.com/walthamserials.html) are a means for determining the approximate production date. In general, we think of serial number lists (not just for Waltham, but for other watch manufacturers as well) to only be accurate within a year or two at best, and recognize that there are numerous exceptions wherein which the dates may be off as much as 3 years or more.

Catalog Information for some Waltham movements can be seen online in scans from the:

1887 (Updated to 1889) S.F. Myers Catalog at:
www.elginwatches.com/scans/sales_catalogs/1887_S_F_Myers/m_index.html

1896 Marshall Field Jewelry Catalog at:
www.elginwatches.com/scans/sales_catalogs/1896_Marshall_Field/m_index.html

1903 Oy Company Catalog at:
www.elginwatches.com/scans/sales_catalogs/1903_Oy_Company/m_index.html

1917 Oskamp-Nolting Catalog at:
www.elginwatches.com/scans/sales_catalogs/1917_Oskamp-Nolting/m_index.html

To view, go to the Elgin Watch Collectors Site Home Page at elginwatches.org, then copy and paste the address in your browser's address bar and click on 'Go'.

Only a small percentage of American watches (or Swiss watches for the North American market) were cased at the factories prior to the mid-1920's (even then, uncased movements were furnished to the trade at least until the 1960's). Most watch companies just made movements (the "works") in industry standard sizes. The case companies made cases in those same sizes. The practice at that time was to go to a jeweler, select the quality of the movement and then pick out the desired style and quality of case. The jeweler would then fit the movement to the case in a matter of moments.

Or, watches were sold by mail-order. Large outfits such as Sears, Roebuck & Co., Montgomery Ward, or T. Eaton (in Canada), would offer the movements in a variety of cases of different design and quality in their catalogs. Smaller mail-order retailers would case the watches, typically in a 20-year gold filled case and offer it only that way, with the buyer not having a choice of cases.

Note: The grade of a case is the quality of the materials and work that went into it. Each case grade was offered in many different engraved designs.

A short history of American watch cases, within the online article "Decorative Aspects of American Horology," by Philip Poniz, can be viewed on The Antiquorum Magazine (http://www.antiquorum.com/vox/june_2002/poniz/poniz.htm) website.

If you can tell us about (or post a picture of) the trade marks or names stamped into the inside back of the case, we may be able to tell you a little about the case material and its manufacturer.

When a movement designed to go in a hunting-case (one with a metal lid or cover over the crystal) is placed in an open-face case, the winding stem ends up at the 3 o’clock position. Such combinations are frequently referred to as a “Sidewinder.” Sometimes, this combination was requested by the original buyer when the movement and case were first purchased. As hunting-case watches fell out of favor during the early part of the twentieth century, hunting-case movements, some of them of quite high quality, were offered to dealers at substantial discounts to clear them out of inventory. Dealers placed these in open-face cases in order to sell the high grade watches at attractive prices. Many other sidewinders were created during the depression, and much later during the 1980’s, when gold hunting-cases were scrapped out for the value of the gold, the movements being recased into inexpensive cases. Still other sidewinders were, and continue to be, created by watch collectors and dealers who stripped lower grade movements out of hunting-cases in order to use the cases to house higher grade movements.

Please let us know if you have an other questions,