WHAT IS THIS - PART 2

[John Cote]

This one is even pretty easy to research.

JC

[GandalfPC]

The engravings on the case back look authentic - very much like the Hamilton Model 23 I have...

[John Cote]

The watch looks legit, its just what they say about it...the rarity thing...I guess the ad just makes the watch seem rarer than it is...we've all seen worse than this...

Heck, it is a cool watch and looks to be in good shape. I like it...what more can I say.

JC

[This message has been edited by John Cote (edited 11-06-2002).]

[abereiter]

Looks like a nice watch to me. Probably will not meet reserve with a "Buy it now" like that but a nice watch at that.

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Aaron Bereiter
NAWCC #156432
Proud I shouldn't have said that!I shouldn't have said that!I shouldn't have said that! Member #55

[Ball992B]

Somebody has a wood working shop.

Black walnut, not real old, phillips head screws are the give away.

Page 224 CS plain as day 4992B ?

[This message has been edited by Ball992B (edited 11-06-2002).]

[This message has been edited by Ball992B (edited 11-06-2002).]

[Spike]

Ball992B says ?not real old, phillips head screws are the give away.?

Phillips-head screws were patented in 1936 and rather quickly adopted: ?During World War II, tanks, jeeps, and aircraft (were) held together by Phillips-head screws.? (http://www.americanheritage.com/it/2001/02/objlessons.shtml)

Going by the serial number this watch (and presumably its original box) was made in about 1944.

For my edification: Were the original boxes made only with slotted-head screws ? is that why in this case the phillips head screws are the give away?


[This message has been edited by Annie (edited 11-06-2002).]

[GandalfPC]

I think there is a good chance the box is genuine...

I looked over the reproductions that are being made of the box and it is of higher quality than the repro's...

[Steve Maddox]

I'm not very familiar with military timepieces, but I'm torn as to whether or not I think the case mentioned above is original. On the one hand, the lock and latch sure do look like it, but on the other, the green felt and the off-kilter slot in the lid for the winding button really make me wonder.

Perhaps the outer portion of the box is original, but the inner part has been made more recently. Without knowing a lot more than I do, or being able to examine the box much more closely, I'd really hate to have to say for sure either way.


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Steve Maddox
President, NAWCC Chapter #62
North Little Rock, Arkansas

[Philip Hagar]

THEN DON'T!

[Lindell V. Riddle]

THE WATCH IS A REGULAR 4992B HAMILTON...

Practically all the something like 140,000 or so 992B Hamiltons ( the one in question is number 93,505 ) which were produced under government contracts well into the "Viet Nam War Era" had the contract numbers on the case-back. Nice ones routinely sell for the "about 3 Ben Franklin pictures" or so area. There are several on "e-Bay" right now. Just not as many photos, and usually not nearly so much hype! They are very common, and we all know it. It's only when you get into the 12-hour versions, certain dial variations, and of course silver cases that higher values can kick in.


ABOUT THE WOOD BOX AND THE PLAQUE...

I urge everyone to use this link... http://www.shipsclock.com/ProductCatalog/PCDetail.htm

CLICK WHERE IT SAYS "NEXT PRODUCT" UNTIL YOU SEE THE "WATCH BOX" ITEM APPEAR... YOU'LL SEE THE BOX IS THERE FOR A VERY REASONABLE PRICE.

In the new reproduction boxes which are of amazing quality, you'll see the same green felt as the one in the auction. That plaque can be made today at any trophy shop, and frankly for what it's worth the one in the auction does not look at all like an original plaque to me.


SMOKE AND MIRRORS ONCE AGAIN...

To me the big joke is the "Buy it Now" which implies a high value that simply does not exist here. Such an amount is a cruel snare for the unsuspecting. Add up the fairly inexpensive watch, an inexpensive box, and a very inexpensive plaque and you're at less than 25% of that "Buy-it-Now" amount! The outrageous claim that only 4 to 5 hundred were made is based on "smoke and mirrors" once again, something that unfortunately we've seen a lot of recently.

When as a listing agent one says...

" I am selling this item for a watch collecting friend. I stand behind the accuracy of his description "

...then you take on the false claims, distortions and over-blown rhetoric as your own, and now YOUR integrity is in doubt. In my opinion you then risk loosing credibility as you become known by HIS outrageous claims. "You are known by the company you keep" ...after all is said and done.


AN OPINION ABOUT ONE'S REPUTATION...

A good reputation takes time to build, and highly speculative, overblown, and dubious representations on the part of any seller can in mere moments undermine a previously good reputation. Too many "sellers" tend to "oversell" and thereby run the risk of all their subsequent statements falling on deaf ears. It's a "slippery slope" we'd all do well to avoid. The resulting fall can be a very hard one.


Lindell V. Riddle

[Spike]

On the box in the listing, the lower part of the latch (curiously, fastened with slotted screws) extends onto the inner surface of the box like the top part of the latch does. The lower part of the latch on the new box by Ships Clock Cabinetry doesn?t. Any significance?

The Ships Clock Cabinetry site says that their box is made of Honduras mahogany. I agree with Ball992B that the box in the listing looks like walnut. Does anyone know what the original boxes were made of?


[This message has been edited by Annie (edited 11-07-2002).]

[Ball992B]

Ok,
If the box is original the piano hinge and the phillips heads were added...maybe as a repair. IMHO
Phillips in my opinion are superior to slotted as an installer. But they do not have the look of old.

[Jerry Treiman]

I have an original box (missing the inserts to hold the watch), and mine has slotted screws. The ID plate on the front of mine is very different, being made of a white plastic-like material. Mine also has a different contract number, though, so the ID plate may be different for another contract.

[Ball992B]

I think the popularity with phillips screws caught on fast with tradesmen. Here time is a large factor in production.

Obviously they were not a favor in the watch and clockmaking trades as I don'y see any phillips heads on that 4992B movement.