Early Patek

[Zack Bortolot]

Hello! I recently purchased an early keywind watch that is marked "Patek Geneva" on the dial. Although the movement is clearly a notch up from other bar movements I have seen, there are no markings on the train side of the movement. The case is an unsigned silver plated one, and it doesn't fit the movement perfectly (the case screws can't be turned all the way) so I strongly suspect that it is a replacement. I'm wondering if anyone can give me additional information on this watch. In particular I am very curious about when it was made, whether it is is actually a Patek (and not a contemporary forgery), and whether you think it is worth taking off the dial to see what's underneath. I have attached a picture of the movement to this posting, and I will post a picture of the dial in a second post. Thanks in advance for any information or suggestions! I got the watch very inexpensively, so I will have no hard feelings at all if you don't think it looks right.

Zack

[Zack Bortolot]

Hello! I recently purchased an early keywind watch that is marked "Patek Geneva" on the dial. Although the movement is clearly a notch up from other bar movements I have seen, there are no markings on the train side of the movement. The case is an unsigned silver plated one, and it doesn't fit the movement perfectly (the case screws can't be turned all the way) so I strongly suspect that it is a replacement. I'm wondering if anyone can give me additional information on this watch. In particular I am very curious about when it was made, whether it is is actually a Patek (and not a contemporary forgery), and whether you think it is worth taking off the dial to see what's underneath. I have attached a picture of the movement to this posting, and I will post a picture of the dial in a second post. Thanks in advance for any information or suggestions! I got the watch very inexpensively, so I will have no hard feelings at all if you don't think it looks right.

Zack

[Zack Bortolot]

Here is a picture of the dial.

[Dr. Jon]

Nice movement and an interesting watch.

It may well be a Patek but before either of his partnerships. First was with Czapek Patek and Czapek. This he dissolved in about 1845 to partner with Phillipe to take advantage of his stem wind stem set patents.

Pre patek Phillipe watches especially recased are, sadly, not the same thing.

In general keywind "Pateks" do not have the cachet. There are exceptions which are usually very small ladies cylinder watches which are signed Patek Phillipe. For a very small watch for pendent wear teh cylinder worked as well as the lever unitl about 1900 or so so you do see these small keywind cylinders.

Patek was a Polish count and dabbled around until he started with Czapek and get really serious about the business with Phillipe.

It is significantly different from early Patek Phillipe movements. It was probably something Patek did for a friend using the Geneva infra structure. He bought a movement had it cased and the case is now gone. If this watch oculd talk it might have very intersting things to say.


You have a neat watch with a credible link to Royalty but it is an impoverished relative. To many of us, this makes it a great collectable.

[Zack Bortolot]

Dr. Jon,

Thanks for the reply! I'm certainly more interested in the movement from a historical / mechanical perspective rather than a monitary one, especially since the watch cost me relatively little. It's amazing to me that chances are that Antonie Patek arranged for the production of this very watch and inspected it in person.

One thing I'm curious about is when the official name of the company was changed to include Philippe, since I found a copy of a letter from 1845 on a website, and the letterhead is marked "Patek & Comp.". Also, in the catalog for "The Industry of All Nations" show from 1851 they refer to a keyless watch that was on display as being made by "M. Patek, of Geneva".

Zack

[Dr. Jon]

To get the whole background, buy or borrow a copy of Patek Phillipe Geneve by Huber and Banbery.

The have Patek starting a watch business in Geneve in the late 1830's. He partnered with Czpek about 1841; dissolved that to partner with Phillipe in 1845, the usual date for the founding of the company.

In answer to your question, Phillipe's name went on the sign in 1851. From 1845 to 1851 the firm signed their work Patek & Cie (Company).

If your watch is by this Patek, and it likely is, this information dates it to between 1835 and 1841. That makes is very early Swiss lever and an unusually good one due to the extra caps on jewels. If by Patek it probably had a gold case, possibly an enameled gold case.

In the period 1835 to 1841 he was essentially a broker and its very likely that he handled this movement. By my definition he bought the rough movement and paid to put it through the various shops that did the jeweling, added the caps, finished the movement, made the dial and hands, fitted it all together and cased it.

Enjoy