L'epine Geneve Crysot?

[theSprouls]

Hello all,

I'm a member of several message boards, both fishing and antiques. However, I'm new to this message board, and I'm new to "pocket watches". My grandfather left me several old watches 20 years ago, and I've just had them sitting in a jewelry box since then. I got curious recently and tried to figure out what I had, but was unable to find anything exactly like them. Wow, am I ever surprised at the varieties and sub variaties of every make and model! Also, the beauty of some pocket watches is unbelievable.

Anyway, one that I have appears to be a Swiss pocket watch. It's 18kt gold and does not have a cover for the front to hide the face. There is a clear cover over a gold face. It has roman numerals and a small (1/3 inch) second hand circle in the lower half. Inside the roman numberals all the way into the center of the face its sort of a paisley pattern in the gold. There are small raised dots all around the outside area, leaving the roman numerals in a ring of flat gold. The roman numerals are are in a ring that's 1/4 inch wide.

So far as markings, it has L'EPINE GENEVE below the second hand circle on the face. Inside the first back cover it has what I believe is a seriel number 18642, 18K a little diamond shaped box with DM inside it. A set of parenthesis around a strange character that almost looks like two characters merged together ... or a gothic looking 'B' ... strange!. Also some inscriptions, likely from the original owner!?

There's two small circular openings in the first cover to access the square winder and time setting controls with some sort of tool, which I don't appear to have! When you open the first cover there's a second cover with the seriel number and the word CRYSOT. The working of the watch have several tiny reddish dots that appear to be covering something with a slot on them, lind if like a 'regular' screw head. Also, down in the guts once again there's the lettering L'EPINE GENEVE.

I got some good information before on a forum when I looked up my old Norton tallclock that my Great Grandfather had passed down to me. I'm hoping you experts may be able to tell me a little about this timepiece. Also, where can I find a little 'winder' tool for it. I'd love to hear it tick!

Thanks in advance,
Bob

[theSprouls]

Hello all,

I'm a member of several message boards, both fishing and antiques. However, I'm new to this message board, and I'm new to "pocket watches". My grandfather left me several old watches 20 years ago, and I've just had them sitting in a jewelry box since then. I got curious recently and tried to figure out what I had, but was unable to find anything exactly like them. Wow, am I ever surprised at the varieties and sub variaties of every make and model! Also, the beauty of some pocket watches is unbelievable.

Anyway, one that I have appears to be a Swiss pocket watch. It's 18kt gold and does not have a cover for the front to hide the face. There is a clear cover over a gold face. It has roman numerals and a small (1/3 inch) second hand circle in the lower half. Inside the roman numberals all the way into the center of the face its sort of a paisley pattern in the gold. There are small raised dots all around the outside area, leaving the roman numerals in a ring of flat gold. The roman numerals are are in a ring that's 1/4 inch wide.

So far as markings, it has L'EPINE GENEVE below the second hand circle on the face. Inside the first back cover it has what I believe is a seriel number 18642, 18K a little diamond shaped box with DM inside it. A set of parenthesis around a strange character that almost looks like two characters merged together ... or a gothic looking 'B' ... strange!. Also some inscriptions, likely from the original owner!?

There's two small circular openings in the first cover to access the square winder and time setting controls with some sort of tool, which I don't appear to have! When you open the first cover there's a second cover with the seriel number and the word CRYSOT. The working of the watch have several tiny reddish dots that appear to be covering something with a slot on them, lind if like a 'regular' screw head. Also, down in the guts once again there's the lettering L'EPINE GENEVE.

I got some good information before on a forum when I looked up my old Norton tallclock that my Great Grandfather had passed down to me. I'm hoping you experts may be able to tell me a little about this timepiece. Also, where can I find a little 'winder' tool for it. I'd love to hear it tick!

Thanks in advance,
Bob

[theSprouls]

Hello again. Upon closer inspection i'm thinking it's Lepine rather than L'epine.

I've searched this site and I'm amazed at the dedication and vast resources you all are able to tap when researching these watches. I would not have imagined that this much information would be available about both watches and watchmakers!

It appears that Lepine watches are both a specific watchmaker, and a watch type, as Mr Lepine was something of a pioneer in the professions, if I understand what I'm reading here.

Also, I'm attaching a couple photos. My digital camera is old, and one of the first such camers manufactured, so please escuse the poor quality. I'm hoping even a fuzzy photo will alloy the experts to make an ID on this watch for me. Thank you all in advance. f:\docs\bob\pocketwatchpic2.jpg
f:\docs\bob\pocketwatchpic1.jpg

[theSprouls]

Is there any other place I should look for information on this watch, in case nobody here has seen this one before? I was thinking maybe I need to attend a local antique watch & clock show in my area perhaps.

Thanks,
Bob

[Oliver Mundy]

Unfortunately the two images have failed to appear; at any rate I have viewed this query on two different computers and the pictures do not display on either.

The description suggests a mid-19th-century watch; the gold dial (face) was fashionable in both England and Switzerland from about 1830 until 1870 or so. What we really need in order to be more specific is a view of the movement (i.e. what you see when the 'cuvette' [the inner back cover, with the two winding-holes] is opened). The 'tiny reddish dots' sound like jewels, and if there are several of them it may well be that this is a movement of some quality. Moreover, the fact that the name L'Epine appears on the movement itself, not only on the dial or the cuvette, is a good sign, strengthening the possibility that this, while probably not made by the original L'Epine, may indeed be a watch from his factory; I say this because, by contrast, many Swiss watches bore false names, but these generally appeared only on the cuvette. 'Crysot' is beyond me, I must confess; perhaps a retailer or distributor.

The winding device is simply a miniature version of a clock-key, usually brass. These are readily available on eBay and elsewhere; $20 or less will buy you a bunch of 14 in various sizes. Do not be disappointed, though, if the watch fails to run! Provided the balance-wheel swings freely to and fro when the watch is shaken, there is a good chance that it can be put into working order.

[Oliver Mundy]

I should have added that one can usually get a perfectly serviceable image of a watch by putting it on an ordinary flat-bed scanner. Even if it does not lie flat (e.g. because the back does not open far enough) the result should still be adequate, provided the scanner is not one of the very slimline types.

Oliver Mundy.

[theSprouls]

Oliver,

I was delighted to hear from you. First, may I compliment you on having the courtesy of taking the time to explain some of the terminology as you went along. I'm picking up a lot of it as I read postings on this site, but it would appear there is much to learn!

Thanks for some insight into the possible background on the watch. By the way, the balance wheel appears to swing freely, so perhaps there is hope for it to be working!

Also, I took your advice and used my scanner to take pictures, which I've included (hopefully this time) to this posting, along with the orignal ones I had tried to post.

Regards,
Bob

http://home.comcast.net/~the_sprouls/pocketwatchpic1.jpg
http://home.comcast.net/~the_sprouls/pocketwatchpic2.jpg
http://home.comcast.net/~the_sprouls/pocketwatchpic3.jpg
http://home.comcast.net/~the_sprouls/pocketwatchpic4.jpg

[Oliver Mundy]

Thank you for your kind comments!

I now think this watch dates from about 1850-60. The layout of the movement - the so-called 'barred' or 'bridge' style, in which each wheel was retained by a separate brass bracket - was generally adopted by the Swiss from about 1820 onwards, but in earlier examples each of the brackets or 'bridges' has a step in it instead of being on one level as they are here. (This is rather different from the original 18th-century version of Jean-Antoine Lépine's design, in which, for example, the mainspring was completely free-standing.) The watch is fairly typical of its time, with a cylinder escapement*, and was probably made for the English or perhaps American market, since the regulator is marked with English words rather than the French equivalents AVANT and RETARD.

Could we have a picture of the case markings? It seems just possible that these are English hallmarks, which would give an exact date.

*See my web-page for an explanation of this term, with a diagram: Escapements (http://www.horologia.co.uk/escapements.html).

Oliver Mundy.

[theSprouls]

I did some reading of the dictionary link ... most helpful. Also got quite interested in the thread relating to switching and parting. Boy, I suppose it's not hard enough "knowing your stuff" without also having to be able to detect non-original parts! But I digress ... I was unable to get any picture that could be of any use, so I drew the case markings as best I could.
http://home.comcast.net/~the_sprouls/pocketwatchpic5.jpg