Cheap or Quality Vintage Swiss Pocket Watch??

[Elaine]

I picked up a Pocket Watch at an estate auction. It's a wind up, Atlantis Watch Co Swiss six jewels one 1 position adj. On the 2nd aux dial it says "BILTMORE" Obviously it's not in the Cooksey Complete Guide Book.
Where can I find info on determining its age? There are no serial #'s, no silver marks on the case,There is a single sunk 2nd aux and both aux. & dial have Arabic #'s.
How do you determine if this was a cheap Swiss fake from years ago or a Swiss that is good quality? Is there a reference book or web site for Swiss pocket watches?
Thanks for your help as I like to have any history of watches I collect. Elaine

[Elaine]

I picked up a Pocket Watch at an estate auction. It's a wind up, Atlantis Watch Co Swiss six jewels one 1 position adj. On the 2nd aux dial it says "BILTMORE" Obviously it's not in the Cooksey Complete Guide Book.
Where can I find info on determining its age? There are no serial #'s, no silver marks on the case,There is a single sunk 2nd aux and both aux. & dial have Arabic #'s.
How do you determine if this was a cheap Swiss fake from years ago or a Swiss that is good quality? Is there a reference book or web site for Swiss pocket watches?
Thanks for your help as I like to have any history of watches I collect. Elaine

[Kent]

Elaine:

The Biltmore name was used on several watches, none of which sound like the one you've described. I can't find a reference for the Atlantis Watch Co. There is a book that provides a first pass look at Swiss watches, both high grade and "Swiss Imitation American Movements" - "Foreign & American Pocket Watch Identification and Price Guide - Book 3," Roy Ehrhardt, Heart of America Press, Kansas City, MO, 1976 (A new edition is still in print, see Heart of America Press (http://www.hoapress.com)). This book is useful, but it gives more of 'feel' for the Swiss watches, rather than being a definative work on the subject.

If your watch is marked "... six jewels one 1 position adj ..." its either a Swiss fake (extremely likely), or an honest, inexpensive import, not even pretending to be a high grade watch (not so likely). "Swiss Fake" is term used to describe inexpensive watches made to resemble medium-to-high grade American watches. They are marked with names similar to those of American watches, or with names that sound as though they should be an American watch. They frequently have a distinctive lettering style on their plates. These watches were imported from the last quarter of the nineteenth century through the end of the American pocket watch era in the 1960’s. On some, their jewels seem to be larger than on most American watches and they may not all be functional. A 1908 article, describing one such watch may be seen at:
http://elginwatches.org/scans/non_elgin_articles/m_1908_swiss_fake_warning.html
(you should copy this link and paste it in your browser address bar since directly linking to this website from the NAWCC Message Board is not possible)

The markings on "Swiss Fakes" as to adjustment are not to be trusted. No American watches come to mind whose adjustment markings are to less than 3 positions, or 5 adjustments (heat, cold and 3 positions). Markings on "Swiss Fakes" may be 1, 2 or 3 adjustments. The deception occasionally goes as far as simulating a compensated balance. On a compensated balance the rim of the balance wheel has two cuts, all the way through the rim, one near each of the two arms that support the rim. Sometimes, these cuts are faked by the use of a slot that goes half way through the rim. A real compensated balance has the inside of the rim is made of a different color material than the outside of the rim. A faked compensated balance is made entirely of the same material. Most "Swiss Fakes" don’t bother doing this and the balances don’t have any cuts at all. These are not to be confused with post-1930 quality watches whose anti-magnetic, temperature immune balances are not cut.

Good luck,
Kent

That guy down in Georgia :smile:

[Samuel Goldstein]

Emil Gisiger of Bienne, Switzerland manufactured under the Atlantis and Flambeau Watch Mfg. companies.
The branding of Biltmore is attributed to others including Gruen, nothing mentioned for Atlantis.

H. Gisiger of New York, an importer imported over 50 trade names including Atlantis.

The companies seem to be allied with Gisiger Bros., Times Watch Company of Selzach and Bienne.

Although no date is given, the Gisiger Companies became part of Ed Kummer, SA Ebauches Bettlach, SA. The references to Atlantis and "low Grade" are repeated.

For more, try Kathleen Pritchard "Swiss Timepiece Makers 1775-1975". Phoenix Press