Hello from new member

[Evalyn]

Hello everyone!

I'm another newbie who has taken a sudden burning interest in pocket watches after digging through the old family jewelry box for the umpteenth time to admire the flotsam and jetsam of various relatives. I just love the old stuff and never tire of looking at it, remembering the people who owned the pieces.

But this time, looking at the pocket watch, I really wanted to know more about it, e.g., its origins and purpose. After searching various websites I think I'm more confused about how to identify it ---and not sure I should attempt to remove the case to find the serial number. So I guess that's two questions :)

Hoping someone can help point me in the right direction!

Watch face says
"A.W.W. Co.
Waltham."
all in fancy italic script.
It is similar but not identical to the face shown on this page:
http://www.awco.org/Seminar2006/Waltham/OMDial.jpg

Winding pin is on top, but looks like the one shown on this page, top right "sidewinder" picture:
http://www.oldwatch.com/identify/identify.html
file:///C:/Users/Owner/AppData/Local/Temp/moz-screenshot.jpg
Size: approx 2" round, no case cover
Color: silverish (nickel?). Very plain and unremarkable except for weight.
Hour, minute and second hands are dark blue
Glass is very thick, like "coke bottle" glasses. There seem to be some small dark specks on the underside of the glass and also a few on the watch face.
Owner of watch worked for the railroad in the 1900's, approx between 1910 to early 1940's. I don't know if he bought the watch new or obtained it from someone else.
The watch was working until early 1960's when it got overwound (kids! :0:)

Any and all information and pointers appreciated!
If there's a chance I could safely open the case myself, I'd appreciate tips on where to find the information on how to do this...basically this would be for identification purposes as there are no plans for anyone to wear the watch, just enjoy it as it is and perhaps displaying it in my curio cabinet for sentimental reasons.

thanks!
Evalyn

[Kent]

Hi Evalyn:

Welcome to the NAWCC American Pocket Watch Message Board!

It would be helpful if you could post a picture of the movement (the "works"), the clearer and sharper, the better, other pictures will help a little, but this is the most important. We may be able to identify it by the shape of the plates. In trying to open the watch, you might find the information in "How To Open A Pocket Watch Case (https://home.comcast.net/~k_singer/Opening_Pocket_Watch_Cases__k.htm)" useful.

To post an image, scroll to the top of the thread and click on "FAQ," then scroll down to "vBulletin FAQ" and click on the "How to post images" and follow the instructions. Note that there is no indication of attaching a file (picture) until you go to actually post your thread or your reply. The picture does not show up in the "Instant Reply" text box in which you've written your thread or your reply, nor does the picture appear in the "Preview." You can test your efforts in the Just Practicing and Learning Forum (http://mb.nawcc.org/forumdisplay.php?s=&daysprune=-1&f=28).

Its also helpful if you can post all the markings that are on the movement (the "works") in case they can't be seen in the picture(s).

Good luck,

[Lorne]

Hello!

Removing the back of a watch is not major surgery. If it's a screw on, simply turning it counter-clockwise should remove it. If its stuck, put a few small drops of light oil on the seam between the back and the case and let it sit a few minutes, then try again.

If its a flip-open style back, you can tell by the hinge on the case, find either the small tab or indentation and open it with your finger nail. Do the same if there is an inner cover. If it won't open, try a using a very small screw driver or thin piece of plastic to pry it open. Some folks use a single edged razor, but I like keeping my fingers where they are.

Some watches use a snap-on back. These normally have a small indention on the seam, and are opened by prying with a small screw driver.

Lorne

[Jtrenalone]

Welcome Evalyn,:)
You have received good advice for opening and posting pictures. We would love to see your watch, and fill you in on information,
Regards,
Joel

[Evalyn]

Thank you all! I'll definitely try to open the back (carefully....) and if all else fails, I will at least post a picture of the outside. More later :-)

[Dr. Jon]

One other suggestion. If the back of the watch is not hinged, so you can either snap it off or unscrew it, you can get a very good picture of the movement by plaing it on a scanner and scanning it.

The scanner will produce a lot of detail, light it well and have it on your computer ready to go.

[Evalyn]

Here's some basic photos. I read the "opening the back" instructions and am not 100% sure yet of which method to use, so while I'm thinking it over, here are some pictures.

Please see there is a small indentation on each side of the watch; in picture "watch 3a" the indentation is more prominent and the nearby scratches seem to indicate tool use there. In picture "watch 4a" -- sorry, the light is fading and I couldn't get it focused right --- there is also a small, but differently shaped indentation, shaped like a pouty lip.

Any thoughts on the best technique for opening? Just one side or....?

thanks kindly,
Evalyn

[Kent]

Hi Evalyn:

It looks like a swing ring case. First, unscrew the bezel.

Next, pull out the stem.

Then, as described in the case opening article, swing the movement ring up from the six o'clock position, being careful NOT to get your fingernail under the dial, but in the slot in the ring.

Good luck,

[Jon Hanson]

I believe the above is INCORRECT INFORMATION; your case appears to be hinged on one or two sides. Start with the back and look for a "wing" and gently pry under the wing to open the case back. Then do the same if there is an inside dust cover or curvette.

If there is no hinge, unscrew the back off.

Please post again if you have trouble.

[Veritas]

It looks like a swing ring case to me as well.:)

[Jon Hanson]

The case is heavily tarnished--two seams or one--hard to tell?

[Lorne]

I see two seams. Also, the bezel doesn't look as heavy as it does on swing-wing cases. Looks like a regular three piece screw together case to me...


Lorne

[Lorne]

The case is heavily tarnished--two seams or one--hard to tell?

Hey Jon, you haven't warned her not to switch parts yet!!!

Lorne

[Jtrenalone]

Evalyn,
It is a little difficult to see if there is only one seam, but if there is only one.... see if you can unscrew the front bezel (the piece with the glass). If it is difficult, try using some rubber grabbing fabric, like the stuff used to put under carpets so as they do not slip (or something like that), and using your palm pressed against the glass crystal see if you can unscrew the front.

If you are successful, then send another picture with the front off.

Joel

[Evalyn]

Got it open! It is apparently a "swing ring" case. After some trepidation while unscrewing the bezel, having to use a rubber jar-top remover as mentioned in the tips, the front came off, and I was able to gently lift the works up and get photos of the innards.

On the inside back, the watch says "ANTI-MAGNETIC <electricity logo> SHIELD", then under that, "PAT'D DEC.4.83", and then, "A.W.W.CO."
Then there are two lines of stamped, rather hard to read numbers.
I think they're
318236
65188

On the movement itself there is a serial number 3027750.
There's text that reads "SAFETY PINION".
Many of the screws are blue colored.

The topmost piece of metal, that is, the ring attached to the center of the works with an arm leading to something that looks like a medieval axe resting in a circle, is not the color shown in the photo. It actually has a bluish silver color and is *very* shiny. Couldn't capture that in the photo.

At the bottom is inscribed "AMERICAN WALTHAM WATCH CO."

Now for the photos....3 attached.
The watch is indeed very heavily tarnished, and bears witness of having been a workhorse rather than an item of adornment!

kind regards,
Evalyn

[Jtrenalone]

Well here is some information off of the web database. From the looks of it, probably 15 jewels. Nice watch:)

(database corrected from earlier post, see Tom's post below)

Start: 9/1/1886 End: 2/28/1887 First: 3027001 Last: 3030000 Model: 1883 (http://www.nawcc-info.org/WalthamDB/observations.asp?Model=1883&Name=15&Size=18&Plate=FP&Jeweling=15&Balance=&Comment=SW++OF++PS+Pat%2E+Reg%2E+BH+Church+EX&Style=OF&serial=3027720%22) Name: No 15 PS B Gr Material: A Grade: No. 15, NL Size: 18 Size: 18 Plate: FP Plate: SW Jewelling: 4 Pairs Jewels: 15 Balance: Bal: Pat. Reg. - Breg. HS Style: OF Style:
OF
Comment: SW OF PS Pat. Reg. BH Church EX Source: AD Date:
1/3/2003
Date:
12/2/2002

[Jon Hanson]

Indeed-- a swing ring but a special one with the shield to prevent magnatism.

[Jtrenalone]

Also, (although hard to tell from photos), looks like it is the original case:)

[Jtrenalone]

It does look like it has been used well...these are neat watches. this is the kind I enjoy the most, as there are lots of stories hidden in the watch (although we may never know them)...
It is always exciting opening a watch for the first time:)
Joel

[Tom McIntyre]

You misread the serial number it is 3027750 I think. Here is a snap of the database page.

[Jtrenalone]

Yep, thanks for the catch. I am typing to quickly,

I corrected my earlier post to as not to cause confusion to anyone browsing the posts

Joel

[Evalyn]

All the details are so interesting! It's keeping me busy, looking up what everything means. I think I've pinned down most of the abbreviations, but the comment is still mysterious:

Comment: SW OF PS Pat. Reg. BH Church EX

It was really nice to get the watch open and peep inside. Also gave me the chance to clean off all the black spots, whatever they were, so the piece looks a lot better now. Who knows, perhaps I'll even think about having it repaired someday. Would be nice to see it come to life again.

[Lorne]

SW = Stem Wind

OF = Open Face

PS = Pendant Set

Patented Regulator

Church = Model 1883

Anyone know what BH and EX mean?

Lorne

[Kent]

Hi Evalyn

You've got a nice, medium grade watch. The movement, as others have posted is a grade No. 15. You can see a brief description of the movement, and where it fit in Waltham's line of 18-size watches, online in the 1887 (Updated to 1889) S.F. Myers Catalog (http://www.elginwatches.com/scans/sales_catalogs/1887_S_F_Myers/m_index.html) page for Waltham watches.

To understand the various terms we've been using, it might be helpful to read the following Wiki articles:
Watch Models
Watch Grades
Watch Size
Pocket Watch Jewels
Pocket Watch Regulator

Watch cases weren't usually made by the movement manufacturers, see: Watch Case

Your case, made by the American Waltham Watch Co. is fitted with a Giles, Anti-Magnetic shield, click on the thumbnail views below.

Please let us know if you have further questions.

Good luck,

[Kent]

Tom McIntyre once found a copy of Gile's December 4, 1883 patent, the four pages of which can be seen below.

[Jon Hanson]

a few pointers:

Be careful when opening and closing your movement in this case; several pitfalls:

1. Pull out stem when opening so as to not snap off winding arbor.

2. Be careful of ruining the hands flipping and opening movement, esp. the second hand.

3. Don't use a tool opening and swinging out movement as you could damage your dial at 6:00.

4. Make sure the movement is secure in the movement ring--occasionally these shift and the movement won't close back into the case. The winding arbor and the female hole must line up when closing.

[Evalyn]

You folks are keeping me busy with absorbing and saving all this information:) Thanks, Kent, for all the links regarding my watch model and all the introductory how-tos, Lorne for the extra "comments" translation and opening tips, Jon for the extra opening/closing warnings, Joel for all your information and the rubber mat trick, also Tom of course, and Dr Jon....hopefully haven't left anyone out. You've all been great!

Regarding possible dial damage at 6:00 position while opening, I'm guessing that explains the couple small chips on the dial between 5:00-6:00. Never saw them until I zoomed in closely on the photo of the front.

I never realized how often people might open their pocket watch to regulate the time or have it cleaned. Possibly that's the reason for the dints on the side of the case --- I might not be the only person ever handling this watch who didn't know it opened by simply screwing the bezel off. :o

The information on the Giles Anti-Magnetic Shield is intriguing. The language of the patent application tells a lot about industry at that time (even fiction through the '40's still refers to the new age of conveniences brought about by dynamos). Never occured to me to wonder how railroad workers' and others' watches might not function so well in their work environments.

I'm printing all the various catalog pages, descriptions, opening/closing tips, and other information concerning this watch, to save for the next owner.

Oh, I discovered a printing trick that others might be able to use.
Printing scanned advertisements, etc directly from the browser worked OK, but when I saved the image files in IrfanView (free from www.irfanview.com) as high quality .jpgs, then printed with the option "best fit to paper", I got really nice, legible printouts to save.

Next thing is to clean the watch for display in my curio case, with a little card next to it giving the pertinent details you folks have so kindly provided.

take care,
Evalyn