Hampden John Hancock, 12S

[apm00001]

Dear Forum Participants:

18S Hampden John Hancock pocket watches, 17J-23J, are relatively common; I have seen several offered recently on eBay auctions. However, 12S, 21J John Hancocks appear to be relatively scarce. Shugart awards 1 or 2 stars to these watches, depending upon the type of movement.

Recently, I acquired a 12S John Hancock, 21J, OF, SW, LS, nickel bridge plate, Model 4, Adj 5P, GJS,OF, movement serial number 1974734 - please see attached photos.

According to Henry Burgell's Hampden Lookup Table (NAWCC, Chapter 149), a total of 4,800 watches were produced in this grade, half of which are the particular variation that appears in the attached photos.

The Hampden dial is somewhat unusual; the numbers 3, 9 and 12 appear only as black rectangles. Could this be a replacement dial?

The case appears to be the original GF Dueber case, i. e., no additional screw marks are visible.

Comments concerning 12S John Hancocks and/or their relative scarcity are welcomed and will be much appreciated.

-Alan (apm00001)

[Kent]

HI Alan:

I'm not that knowledgeable about the 12-size John Hancock, but You've got a nice-looking watch there! I've always liked that style of hands. The dial appears to be original to me, but I agree that it is unusual.

Regarding the 18-size John Hancock, I thought that they were only made as a 21-jewel watch (http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y284/walt845/1898_JanHampden_JH-SR.jpg).

[HenryB]

All John Hancock size 18S came only in 21 J.
Believe they were about 3rd in price behind the Special Railways, and New Railways.

All 12 S John Hancocks were 21 J, and at the top of the 12s Manufacturing Price Lists.

The Database estimate of 4800 Production is broken down into the following variations:

21J-HC-Model 3-Lever 600
21J-OF-Model 3-Pin 500
21J-HC-Model 4-Lever 1100
21J-OF-Model 4-Lever 2400
21J-OF-Model 4-Pendant 200

[apm00001]

All John Hancock size 18S came only in 21 J.
Believe they were about 3rd in price behind the Special Railways, and New Railways.

All 12 S John Hancocks were 21 J, and at the top of the 12s Manufacturing Price Lists.

The Database estimate of 4800 Production is broken down into the following variations:

21J-HC-Model 3-Lever 600
21J-OF-Model 3-Pin 500
21J-HC-Model 4-Lever 1100
21J-OF-Model 4-Lever 2400
21J-OF-Model 4-Pendant 200
Responding to Henry B & Kent: Thanks very much for input!

With regard to the number of jewels in 18S John Hancocks - mea culpa! My information (17J-23J) came from my copy of Shugart, which indicates multiple jeweling options for 18S John Hancocks but only 21J option for 12S. Go figure.

Henry: Thanks very much for the population breakdown. It appears that my watch is the most common variant (OF, Model 4, lever) - hey, I can accept that!

I continue to hunt for unusual Hampdens. They're out there....somewhere...lurking, and for the most part, they go unnoticed!

Thanks again for rapid response and enlightening info!

-Alan (apm00001)

[Kent]

The relative pricing of the 18-size Hampden movements can be seen on page DH02 of the 1917 Oskamp-Nolting Catalog (http://www.elginwatches.com/scans/sales_catalogs/1917_Oskamp-Nolting/m_index.html).

The 12-size John Hancock was sold as a complete watch, cased at the factory, according to thie 1908 Ad (http://farm1.static.flickr.com/23/29600516_67d816aa49_o.jpg). However, I'm sure that movements only (uncased) were also available.

[apm00001]

Reply to Kent: The old jewelry catalog that you cited contains a wealth of information!

I'm always amazed at the prices of antique pocket watches relative to the cost of daily necessities at the time. For example, a top-grade American 21J pocket watch in a gold-filled case might have cost ca. $40 a century ago. This can be put into perspective if one imagines that the buyer at that time offered two $20 gold coins (double eagles) in payment for the watch. Thanks to steady escalation in the price of gold as a commodity, the current bullion value of those two gold coins is roughly $2,000 in today's $$$. The century-ago buyer's $40 had correspondingly high purchasing power at that time; for example, a Model T Ford cost about $300 in 1927!

That same top-grade 21J pocket watch in a gold-filled case in good, working condition might cost today's successful eBay bidder around $150-$200, perhaps a bit more if considered to be in "mint" condition; ("mint" is the second most abused term in the eBay lexicon; the first is "rare"!).

The moral to this story? Buy old watches 'cause you love 'em, not 'cause you think that they're gonna make you rich some day!

-Alan (apm00001)