Waltham in an English case

[kurtnz]

Hi everyone
I need some info on this watch. The case is English? But the movement is Waltham Mass.
I would like year of production and the case maker if possible.
Was this watch cased in the US and imported to England and duty stamped there?
Thank you for your help.
Kurt

[richiec]

According to the Waltham serial number it is a 14 size Model 1876, I believe these were export models. The dial is definitely English. It was manufactured about 1883. I believe the A.B mark is for A. Brown, Edinburgh, the rest will need a more experienced person in English hallmarks. This should also be listed on the European watch section for maximum exposure. Sorry I can't be of more help.

[Lorne]

I've read that Waltham had a large presence in England. However, the English preferred their own cases and dials, which were cheaper and more to their style. Waltham watches were frequently sold as movements only, with dials and cases purchased from local vendors.

Lorne

[4thdimension]

Alfred Bedford. If this post gets through I'll retype the other info.
-Cort

[4thdimension]

..and I hate typing.
Anyway, I recently got a KW Waltham (5244717)in an English case w/ an AB maker's mark. In the NAWCC supplement on English casemaking I found thart Alfred Bedford was partner or director of Aaron Dennison's caseworks in the UK. His AB mark appeared until Dennison's death 1895? I have no library at home so this is "loose" info. Check the NAWCC library for the supplement and a more accurate version.
-Cort

[Andy Dervan]

Hello,

Yes, Waltham had a strong presence in U.K.

Royal Robbins spent some time when he was young (before purchasing Waltham) in UK learning watch case business and watch importation business, so he probably had established business contacts that he utilized later when he began exporting watches to UK.

Royal Robbins appeared to assist Dennison get his English Watch Case Co. going, but would not allow him to use his company's mark on the cases.

Andy

[Jeff Hess]

I beleive I read on here in the past that Dennsion bought or partnered up with AB when he went to Birmingham.

Several dials have surfaced with "Waltham Watch Depot, birmingham" on them.

Birmingham remains one of my favorite places to unearth odd or rarely seen examples of Waltham. The earlier ones almost always have the AB hallmark.

Jeff Hess

[Les harland]

Waltham Movements were imported into the UK and put in English cases
I have three of them in Sterling silver cases
The Hallmark in the picture is not clear
I canot make out one of the symbols
The three most common ones are:-
Leopards head........... London
An anchor.................. Birmingham
Three sheaves of corn .. Chester
The letter will give the year

[kurtnz]

Thank you all for your replies.
The hallmarks are on 4 places on the watch, but only on the back lid are 3 of them. The lion facing to the left, an i in a shield and what looks like an anchor. On the other places there are only the lion facing left and the i in a shield.
I looked up the movement number on the site provided by Lorne.
And it appears that there were 1,000 movements made for export to England between 6-1-1883 and 12/31/1883. The watch movements are size 14 with 7 jewels. A pretty basic movement.
Can anybody tell me what year the i in a shield is? Is that close to the production date or was the watch cased considerably later?

Thank you all.

Kurt

[BrianC]

Cort is correct. AB is for Alfred Bedford.

[Les harland]

The Anchor is Birmingham
I would say your case was hallmarked between 1st July 1883 and June 1884
If you use the link
http://www.925-1000.com
British Hall Marks and then scroll down you can see for yourself

[kurtnz]

Thank you everyone for taking the time to write to me.
It answers a lot of questions for me.
I know just have to find out how the watch made its way to New Zealand. I guess it came over with an early settler. It is also possible that there was an agent here for an English company.
I know that Baume was an exporter to New Zealand from their English outlet.
Thank you again for your help

[MartyR]

I have two Walthams in gold cases by Dennison, made in Birmingham, dated 1922 and 1925.

Buying at auctions in the UK, it seems a pretty common combination.

[kurtnz]

Hi MartyR
I have had this watch for nearly 20 years. I bought it with some other watches I liked and this one was just part of it. So it was well before e-bay.
It came together with this attractive 9ct gold monogramed watch band.

[MartyR]

I have had this watch for nearly 20 years. I bought it with some other watches I liked and this one was just part of it. So it was well before e-bay

Oh I abandoned ebay a long time ago, Kurt :) I'm talking about real auctions where you know it's only real people bidding against you :wink:

[kurtnz]

What auction houses do you use? Do they have online auctions like Horan?
It would be interesting to know who specializing in chorological items.
I'm going to auctions here in Wellington, but they are usually just antique auctions that sometimes have pocket watches in the jewelry section.
Thank you for your input.
Cheers
Kurt

[Jon Hanson]

Oh I abandoned ebay a long time ago, Kurt :) I'm talking about real auctions where you know it's only real people bidding against you :wink:

Honest auction houses without reserves and/or phamtom bidding--tough to find!:eek:

[MartyR]

Guys, I go to auction rooms ... you know, where you put your hand up when you want to bid and try hard not to sneeze when you don't want to bid :o

Mainly I use Bonhams - in the last 6 months I've been to five of their locations in the UK, and I also put in commission bids at a recent auction of theirs in New York (where I got a gorgeous Patek Philippe for not a lot of money!). i've also done some on-line bidding at Christie's in Geneva, but their stuff is very pricey for me.

I just don't trust any of the on-line auctions, and they're not much fun either :)

[man114]

While I don't have it in front of me I have a Waltham, of around a 12s, KW cased in a Sterling case of English origin.

[Jon Hanson]

The bottom line--over the years throuands of Waltham movements were cased and dialed in GB. KWs, SW, high grades, low grades, scarce and common movements, all sizes, button sets, etc................even Premier Maximus watches!

[Kent]

You can read a little bit more about this in the Wiki article: Waltham - England

[Jon Hanson]

Some folks prize higher grade ones, especially with original boxes which are of very high quality (though usually not wood).

Other folks specialize in English cased American.

I have several wonderful Waltham KW chronographs in heavy gold and silver GB cases.