Question about a Ball watch

[Grantier]

I need an expert opinion.

The watch in question has the following.

The dial is marked Ball Official RR Standard Cleveland. It is a 24 hour dial with fine font 24 hour markings inside of the 1-12 markings.

The movement is Father Time Elgin USA.

21 jewels Adjusted 5 positions and serial number is 16803213.

The case is Wadsworth Referee 20 Warranted 20 years.

Would these components ever be considered original to each other?

I appreciate your input and want to know the truth.

Tahnk you for your assistance.

Terry

[rrwatch]

Terry,
As far as I know there are no examples of any 16 size watches made by Elgin for Ball. However there are a number of 16 size Ball ORRS dials known that were made to fit 16 size Elgin movements. Why the dials were made, but not the movements is a mystery. As a general rule, for 16 size watches, Ball ORRS movements should have Ball marked dials and cases.
I do not believe, given the data that you have supplied, that the combination you have started out life together.

[Robert Smothers]

Ed..Picture of Ball-Elgin 16s dial.(dial only)....Robert

[Jeff Hess]

Robert, Ed,

The only Elgins I have in my collection with Ball associated dials are a few convertibles with the early 1870's to 1883 Webb c. Ball private label dials.

Conventional wisdom would be that this combination did not exist as original.

this begs the question of just why these dials were made.

1) to put on a 21J "non marked Ball" Elgin?
2) a project put on hold (after all, we have examples of 16s Howard and Rockfor Balls)
3. Experimental?
4. Error?
5. Fake?

interesting. Would love to talk more about this, perhaps in Chattanooga. I assume Ed is going. Robert?

Jeff Hess