Waltham watch information please. [Archive] - National Association of Watch and Clock Collectors Message Board

Veritas

04-30-2009, 11:16 AM

I am posting this for tick tick, please help Ron in identifying his watch.Thanks.
Some of the pictures are not so clear so perhaps more will need to be taken.

Hi Kevin please find attached pictures of my pocket watch, below is a description of it :
it has Walthams USA enscribed on the face,on the inside front cover it has the markings 9.375 ( the 9 is stamped seperate and then 375) then the letters A L D , at the bottom it has the number 559861.

On the inside back cover it has an anchor ,then a number 9 , then .375, A L D , Each of these marks are seperate unlike the front .Then the same number as the front cover, at the bottom 559861.
One picture is missing i will add it when i find it.

On the plate that hides the movements it has all the same markings as the above with the editional enscription of Dennison, British made , Regular

On the watch movements plate it has : P. J . Bartlett , Waltham Mass , USA with numbers 27633931 ,

There are other other markings on the case and the winder stem , but too small to read

I assume that the long number inside each of the covers is the case number as they are all the same ??? but i'm only guessing, that's my limit i'm afraid
Hope you like it and can tell me more about it i.e carrat ? date ? ect ect

Kent

04-30-2009, 01:20 PM

You can find out some basic facts about your Waltham watch by entering the serial number on the movement (the "works") in the field on the Serial Number link accessable from the NAWCC Information Storage (http://www.nawcc-info.org/WalthamDB/walsernum.htm) website. Don't use any commas in entering the serial number.

There is also a Glossary (http://www.nawcc-info.org/WalthamDB/Glossary.htm) of the terms provided by the serial number lookup. Note: When a number appears by itself in the Comment Column, it is the page in the factory serial list where the entry and explanation appeared. i.e. "Comment 42" is on page 42 of Serial Numbers With Description of Waltham Watch Movements, Waltham Watch Co., Waltham, MA, 1954, (commonly referred to as "The Gray Book").

Should the date not be listed in the search of the NAWCC Information Storage - Waltham Serial Number Data Base, Oldwatch.com's Waltham Production Date Chart (http://www.oldwatch.com/walthamdate.html), or the Pocket Watch Site's Waltham Date Table (http://www.pocketwatchsite.com/walthamserials.html) are a means for determining the approximate production date. In general, we think of serial number vs. date lists - created by using the average number of watches produced over a period of years - to only be accurate within a year or two at best, and recognize that there are numerous exceptions wherein which the dates may be off as much as 3 years or more. This is not just for Waltham, but for other watch manufacturers as well.

Checking in the above references, movement serial number 27,633,931 can be seen to be a 16-size, 17-jewel, model 1908, grade P.S. Bartlett, built in about 1933.

I couldn't make out the marks in the case pictures.
However:
Waltham watches had long been exported to England. According to Timing a Century - History of the Waltham Watch Company, Charles W. Moore, Harvard University Press, Cambridge, MA, 1945, pg. xxx (that's the actual page number), the London office was opened in 1874. It is noted in The Perfected American Watch, an English catalog, by the Waltham Watch Co., Waltham, MA, 1907 edition, that the firm had an office at 125, High Holborn, London, W.C. It is also noted, towards the back of the catalog:“The Waltham Watch Company does not make watch cases, the manufacturer of these being a separate industry. This company, however, supplies Waltham movements in various makes of cases.”Richard French, in a letter dated 22nd February 2005, comments upon a watch: "The case is hallmarked Birmingham 1883 and marked AB for Alfred Bedford, Waltham Buildings, Holborn Circus, London, a name used by the American Watch Company for the cases of their watches retailed in England. Alfred Bedford was Waltham's English manager." Many of these were made by the Dennison Watch Case Company, a Birmingham firm. A large number of Waltham watches imported into England ended up in Dennison cases (frequently marked "A.L.D."), and with good reason. The Dennison Watch Case Company was founded by a founder, and former principle, of the Waltham Watch Co., Aaron L. Dennison. As stated in Watch Case Makers of England, Philip T. Priestley, NAWCC Bulletin Supplement 20, Spring, 1994, pg. 69, Dennison left Waltham and settled in Birmingham, England in 1872. By the 1920’s Dennison’s company was heavily involved with Waltham. On pg. 252, Timing a Century - History of the Waltham Watch Company, it says "At that date, 1923, the English subsidiary (Waltham Watch Company, Ltd) was owned equally by the Waltham Company and the Dennison Watch Case Company, Birmingham, England." The active management of Waltham, Ltd., was in the hands of Major Gilbert Dennison, grandson of Aaron Dennison. Gilbert's father, Franklin, was then president of the Dennison Watch Case Company and a director in Waltham, Ltd. ..."

Referring to the Dennison Watch Case Co., "This was the most successful and best known of the English watch case manufacturers ..." says Watch Case Makers of England, Philip T. Priestley, NAWCC Bulletin Supplement 20, Spring, 1994, on page 69. It was founded in Birmingham in 1874 by Aaron Lufkin Dennison (ALD), a person instrumental in the development of the American watch industry. Mr. Priestley says on page 70, "Over the years, Dennisons made cases for Dreyfus, Newmark, Omega, Smiths, Rotary, Avia, Vertex, Rolex, Rone, Rotherham, Thormens, Perrin, Benson, Dimier, Hirst, British Watchcase Co. Ltd., March & Lobin, Huber, Zenith, Gibson, Longines, Marvin, Cortebert, Marc Fauvre, Baume, Marchand & Tobin, Medana and Roamer."

Mr. Priestley's book reproduces a 1906 Dennison Watch Case Co. ad detailing four different registered marks:

ALD - Silver, 9 ct. and 18 ct. gold (there are no periods between the letters).
Sun - 25 Year Gold-Filled (may also be marked with "A.L.D.")
Moon - 20 Year Gold-Filled (may also be marked with "A.L.D.")
Star - 10 Year Gold-Filled (may also be marked with "A.L.D.")

Tiny numbers and marks, hand-scratched on the inside of the back of a case, are most likely watch repairer's or jeweler's marks. When watches were serviced, the watch repairer would place his mark and/or a date code inside the back. The marking might include a code to indicate the type of service that was done. Many times, the codes were intentionally obscure so that so that they'd be less likely to be faked. Thus, when the watch came back, the watchmaker would instantly know just when he (or she) last worked on it.

Good luck,