Rare American Watch Co. Mdl 1868

[marking_time]

Hi,
I am probably late to the party, but I saw this watch on eBay last night and spent two hours researching it. Fascinating movement for the those interested in American Watch Co. (Jon Hansen). Top plate marked, "Fogg's Safety Pinion Patented Feb. 14, 1865." Pillar plate marked under the balance, "Woerd's Patent May, August 1867."

item #120410573981
You will need two wallets to bid on this one!
Enjoy!
Mike Robie

[Bryan Eyring]

Interesting watch Mike and no better time to talk about it then now - what do others have to say about this timepiece?

Regards,
Bryan

[doug sinclair]

New one on me. I looked, and it appeared to me as though it was an 1888 model. But now that I check, I see there WAS a 16-size, 1868 model. It appears to be quite advanced for that time. But of course, it coluld have actually been finished at a later date. Pretty!

I just re-checked, and it WAS an 1888 model I was looking at. I checked further, and found the 1868 model. It closed at 11 large +! Outta my league, for sure!

Doug S.

[Luca]

Very few made of those 19j 1868 in nickel (if it's 1868 & not converted 1860). Only 2nd I've seen on eBay in past 4 or 5 years. Will probably find a home in a gold case that's waiting for it. I'm assuming it's an 1868 and not a 1860 given the stem wind - BUT - a no. of 1860s were converted to stem wind of the Abbott's variety.

Experts?

[Jon Hanson]

No, notice the setting lever--it is distinctive and only on 1868 models.

[Luca]

I did see the lever which had me feeling it was correct but I'd also been looking at the old Ehrhardt (sp?) book on American Pocket Watches & noticed it being outside what he had for the serial no. range. Of course your 'stare & compare' method Jon, is the way to go. I bid but of course got nowhere near the high. I'd love that kind of result if I ever sold my 20s American grade movement :o! Did they ever make a nickel 20s?

[Jon Hanson]

No 20s nickels, except there is an odd bridge model 20s, 50100 is the number from memory. It is a one of a kind.

20s are not rare.

[Luca]

Oh, I would have figured the 19 jewel 20 size to be somewhat rare as I've not seen any for sale recently.

[Jon Hanson]

common as compared to the 68 in nickel

[Tom McIntyre]

The KW16 in nickel is the scarcest of the American Watch Co. Grade, with the 1868 model close behind. It was interesting to me that the gilt private label 1868 model sold by the same seller a day or so earlier went for very little.

I have pretty good photos of all the American Grade watches on my web site AWCo.org (http://www.awco.org/AWCo/index.htm). While some of the examples are not the very best, they are pretty representative of all the standard variations and some pretty rare. One could have looked there to see the KW16, 1868 and first run 1872 American grade to see where the subject watch fits into the picture.

One of these days we may persuade Jon to put his much better collection of the same items up on his AmericanHorologe.com (http://americanhorologe.com/) web site. So far he is only posting the really unique items there.:o

[Luca]

You're right on that PL 1868 Tom. I bid and was kicking myself for not getting higher. That was a decent movement.

I'm always looking at the pics on your site. Great reference.

[Jon Hanson]

What private label 68 model?

[Luca]

Well not really a private label I guess - I was referring to one that said 'Made for Howard & Co New York' on it. It did say 'Am'n Watch Co'. I thought it was a little different. Here's the listing no 120410849990

[Tom McIntyre]

They bought a lot of watches from Waltham but not very many in the higher grades. They had their own "Excelsior" name applied to many of them. The Am'n grade 68 only had their name in addition to the Waltham marking.

[Jon Hanson]

Lastly--I was waiting to see comments about the dial! IT IS INCORRECT!

[Jon Hanson]

Utter nonsense--this watch mov't linked is an 1872!

[Bryan Eyring]

Apparently people need to be reminded again of our policy here - There are to be no links to live eBay auctions and please refrain from making posts about live auctions. Once the auction is over you are MORE than welcome to post ALL you want about it.
Thanks,
Bryan

[Tom McIntyre]

Lastly--I was waiting to see comments about the dial! IT IS INCORRECT!

Why do you think it is wrong Jon? It is identical to the dial on my nickel KW16 that is only 14 watches later. It would seem that these watches were made up at the same time in both KW and lever setting and nearly identical otherwise.

[Jon Hanson]

Single line script is the norm, glass enamel.

I have a fair number of these and they are all signed with single line script. The auction item 68 mod. did not appear to be glass enamel.

[Tom McIntyre]

I don't know how high in the run the KW's go. The records report that the first 20 watches were 1868 stem wind and the last 80 were 1860 keywind. One of these dials also showed up on the PL 1872 model at the last J&H sale. All the 3 lines I have seen are not glass enamel but I have not seen a lot of them, perhaps 4 or 5.

The single line dials on the KW's give way to multi-line dials on the 1872's. It seems reasonable to me that this very short run of 1868 and nickel KW might have had this odd 3 line dial. In any case, I really like the dial. :)

Do you have any idea how many of the watches in the 501,521 to 501,600 might have been made? I have always suspected that only the first 10 or 20 at the most were actually finished.

[Jon Hanson]

Why do you think it is wrong Jon? It is identical to the dial on my nickel KW16 that is only 14 watches later. It would seem that these watches were made up at the same time in both KW and lever setting and nearly identical otherwise.

Your own web site shows your recased 1868 model with a single line script dial!

Dep sheriff/doc Ron and I have 9 or ten of these and all of our dials are single line script.

[Tom McIntyre]

I was asking specifically about the 501,501 watches they are pretty different in finish from the 410,401 watches. The engraving is much more delicate on the earlier run and bolder on the later run. There are only 20 watches in the second run of 1868 according to the records. I was asking about the follow on nickel KW's that are listed as a run of 80. I wish, of course, that my 501,530 were the last nickel KW16 just for fun.

How many do you and doc have from the 501,501 pair of runs? Do they all have single line dials?

[Jon Hanson]

I don't have a SW in that range, so "maybe" as to the dial change. I believe Ron's also are early ones???