Adequate lubrication

[Seth Thomas Fan]

It's been 2 1/2 years since I last worked on a clock. This weekend, I took my Seth Thomas quarter hour bim-bam tambour mantel clock apart. This has the 89-L movement, which has a rack and snail instead of the familiar count wheel. It also has very stout, rigid, strike levers almost looking like angle steel rather than the familiar, bendable wire levers. Fortunately, they didn't need any adjustment. I successfully got it back together and running and striking nicely.

I'm a novice hobbyist, and in the past I think I over-oiled. This time, I applied only a sheen of Slick 50 to the mainsprings. When I put the movement on my homemade test stand and released the mainspring clamps and swung the pendulum, it took off running without any oil. Not wanting to over-oil, I used some wire oil applicators I got from Timesavers along with Nye clock oil. I only applied a little bit to the pivots, just enough to give them some sheen and get a little into the pivot holes, but not enough to add any surplus to the oil sinks. As per recommendations, I did not oil the strike lever or hammer pivots.

It's been running since last night. But before I mount it in the clock case, do you think I should add more oil, maybe enough to put a sheen of oil in the oil sinks? I just want to be sure that I don't have too little oil.

Thanks for your opinions,

Peter

[doc_fields]

I use a hyperdermic needle or dip oilers to oil my clocks. I put just enough on to oil the pivot in a thin sheen as you say. Anymore than that only invites the collection of dust and grit that can be drawn into the pivot.

In my opinion, what most people call oil reservoirs around the pivots is a misnomer. During the stamping process in punching the holes in the plates, these areas I named above were stamped to help harden the brass around the pivot holes; they are always depressed areas centered around the pivot hole. There is no other way to harden the brass around these holes, so naturally, a depression is made from the hole punch. Clock oil should have a natural tendency to want to adhere to horizontal or vertical surfaces, else it would drain away from the pivot holes and cause premature wear. But clock oil should not be expected to adhere to the outside of pivot holes in what most assume are reservoirs and not be contaminated with grit and dust. True oil reservoirs on old machinery were always in cups or wicks to prevent the introduction of dust and grit that was detrimental to the machinery.

Anyway, that is my opinion, and I beieve it is well-founded..............doc

[Mike Phelan]

Peter
You'll get as many opinions as there are pivots!
What you've done seems perfect to me.

If you can see oil on the pivot holes, it's too much.

As for springs, except for smaller clocks, I use grease. On the smaller ones, I have made a mixture of oil and grease, and use this on barrel or great wheel arbors and ratchets.

Same stuff on hammer tails on larger clocks, and pivots on synchronous electric clocks, unless they are sintered, like some rotors.

No oil on hammer arbors on chiming clocks.

[R. Croswell]

I guess everyone has their own idea about how much oil is enough and how much is too much, but if you have some oil in the pivot holes you are probably ok.

I use one of those squeeze bottles with the 0.008” opening in the wire tube to oil pivots. It lets oil flow very slowly and I can control it to apply as much or as little oil as I like. I try to put in as much oil as will be “sucked” into the pivot hole by capillary action and disappear. When I start to see excess oil backing up in the oil sink, that’s enough.

With main springs, the only thing I’m sure of is that if you come back to the clock in a few weeks and see where oil has dripped off, then you used much too much.

Bob C.

[R. Croswell]

........In my opinion, what most people call oil reservoirs around the pivots is a misnomer. During the stamping process in punching the holes in the plates, these areas I named above were stamped to help harden the brass around the pivot holes; they are always depressed areas centered around the pivot hole. There is no other way to harden the brass around these holes, so naturally, a depression is made from the hole punch..........
Doc, I have to agree that these "depressions" are not practical oil reservoirs, and that stamping the brass serves to harden it, but do you have any idea why most common American mantel clock movements only have these depressions on one plate? Seems to me that the pivots on both plates would benefit equally from the process. Likewise, if the “sinks” were actually intended to hold oil, why would only one plate have this feature? I don’t have a clue!

Bob C.

[Scottie-TX]

I'm a minimal oiler I suppose. I use a hypodermic needle in a unconventional way. I simply dip it into the oil until a drop forms somewhere on it, then apply that drop to the pivot BEFORE assembly. If it blobs up or the drop too large, I blot it with my finger. That's it. No more. I add no further after assembly.
Note that I work on predominantly Wieners and small French roulants. Oil requirements vary, I believe, with respect to size of pivots, wheel loads, etc.

[doc_fields]

Doc, I have to agree that these "depressions" are not practical oil reservoirs, and that stamping the brass serves to harden it, but do you have any idea why most common American mantel clock movements only have these depressions on one plate? Seems to me that the pivots on both plates would benefit equally from the process. Likewise, if the “sinks” were actually intended to hold oil, why would only one plate have this feature? I don’t have a clue!

Bob C.

I really don't know. One possible explanation would be that they were mass produced in large quantities, and stamping the one side, which is usually the rear that is accessible to the customer, would save an extra operation for the front plate, and also that the customer probably would not oil the opposite side, which is against the case, because of its inaccessibilty. I am at a loss to explain any further or better than that, other than guessing......................doc

[Seth Thomas Fan]

Thank you all, for your helpful comments!

I just have another question about lubrication. This Seth Thomas 89-L movement (quarter hour bim-bam) has a brass cam on the center arbor which lifts one of the hammers clear and blocks it during the hour strike. I'm wondering, should the brass camlobe be given some light oil, as it rubs against a steel arm coming off that hammer's arbor? I know that is a point in coming up to warning that this clock (and another one similar to it in my collection) has stopped in the past.

However, I don't want anything that could gum or attract dust. So unless I hear otherwise, I will not lubricate the cam.

Also, the hammer levers from the movement do not have hammer heads mounted directly on them. Instead, they lift wires which actuate other levers with hammer heads on the outside of the rear plate which strike horizontally-oriented straight rod gongs mounted close to the bottom of the case. Should the eyes in the levers be oiled where the wires are mounted? I'm inclined to think not. This clock has been in my family 90 years and I've never seen anything oily in those eyes, nor do I see any wear in them.

Thanks,

Peter

[Willie X]

Peter,

In my shop, anything that slides across something else gets a thin coat of grease. i.e. cam lobes, crutch loops, hammer tails, hammer stops, various locking disk, mainsprings, etc.

An outstanding exception is the pallets and escapewheel teeth. They get the slighest amount of thin clock, or pocket watch, oil. If you know you put it there, but can't see it, that's about the right amount.

Willie X

[JB]

I'm a minimal oiler I suppose. I use a hypodermic needle in a unconventional way. I simply dip it into the oil until a drop forms somewhere on it, then apply that drop to the pivot BEFORE assembly. If it blobs up or the drop too large, I blot it with my finger. That's it. No more. I add no further after assembly.
Note that I work on predominantly Wieners and small French roulants. Oil requirements vary, I believe, with respect to size of pivots, wheel loads, etc.

I think I will adopt Scottie's method. Oilng the pivots seems easy enough, but I'm always frustrated that i seemingly always end up with excess oil.

[Mike Phelan]

I use turret clock oil on the star wheel (and count wheel) of a chiming clock.

I never use any sort of squeezy thing for oiling - just a conventional oiler (!), or if that's too small, a watchmakers' screwdriver.

I have a bunch of elder pith in an old aerosol cap to clean screwdrivers, oilers and tweezers in.