Help with a hamilton 992b idetification

[phillyjenks]

I inherited a hamilton railway special from my grandfather. He worked for the public transportation company in Philadelphia, PA which was knowen as PRT then PTC and now SEPTA. He served there from around 1940 till around 1980. Anyway I am looking for some help aquiring information about this watch. It is the only thing I have from my grandfather and it is very precious to me. I am very interested in aquiring as much information as I can so when I pass it down to my child or grandchild it will have some history with it. This is what I have inside the watch itself it reads - HAMILTON WATCH CO. USA 992B 21 JEWELS ADJ TEMP AND 6 POSITIONS SERIAL# C276927. On the inside of the back of case it reads - HAMILTON WATCH CO. 10K GOLD FILLED LANCASTER, PA SERIAL# K265648. If neceassry I can aquire pics and post them after i figure out how to do it. I am greatful for anyone who can help me with this.

[phillyjenks]

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Please excuse this I am trying to figure out how to post pictures of my watch

[phillyjenks]

Ok now I know how to post pics i will post more as soon as i can

[phillyjenks]

Here are some pictures of the watch if more are needed i can post more

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[Fmiller]

As you said- it is a 992b- produced around 1948. From the pics- it looks like a Model 11 case- yellow gold filled which is correct for the time period of the movement.

It also appears to have a double sunk Hamilton Railway Special Dial- also correct for the time period.

These type of watches a pretty common- but also very collectable.

You can check ebay or a google search to find out the value.

Overall- it looks like a very nice example. You should document the family history of the watch and keep it for generations

[John Cote]

I inherited a hamilton railway special from my grandfather.

Your Grandpa had great taste in watches. Your Hamilton 992b is probably the quintessential railroad pocket watch. They are not rare or even difficult to find in today's marked because a ton of them were sold, but it is a magnificent little machine. A lot of them were produced and sold because they were so good and so dependable.

People will argue about what was the best made American pocket watch. There are a lot of likely suspects. There are the top end watches with 23 jewels or more. There are more exotic, lower production watches. But, to me, the good old 992b is the best standard everyman's watch. Every collector or lover of watches should and can have one of these fine little machines.

Your watch was probably made and sold in about 1947. I will leave it to others to give you the details but I would like to note that your watch has a very desirable porcelain double sunk "Bold Montgomery" dial and is in an original model 11 Hamilton case. These watches could be ordered with a lot of combinations of cases and dials. Montgomery dials had the minute markings around the outside, with red 5 minute markers and typically had the 6 printed in the seconds chapter. Later Hamilton 992b dials were made out of an soft material called melamine with a chalkey painted surface. I think your dial is the most desirable and best looking of all standard 992b dials.

This is a nice family heirloom. I hope you will keep it clean and dry and in your family.

[phillyjenks]

Thanks you Guys keep the comments and information coming. I am Greatfull to All who reply

[terry hall]

Hi
i recieved your PM.. it looks like folks have jumped in and pretty well 'nailed' this one...

It is a Model 11 case... most likely original to the watch...

i would like a bit of info you can probably provide... If you look at the center section of the case around the threads you will see a partial number (should be stamped) and also a number some where on the front removable bezel...

these numbers should match the last few digits of the number stamped in the case back...

Let me know if they do match ( i expect them to)... for research... When I see cases in this serial number range, the center section normally does not have the 'shouldered' area around the pendant...

The dial is desireable on these watches.. Hamilton at one time called the dial BM Numerical Railway Special... BM meaning 'blind man' from earlier ads...

The time frame 47-48 ish was a transition period for dials... guess you were lucky it was not a melamine dial..:D

as mentioned, a great heirloom !!

[phillyjenks]

terry i am trying to find the numbers you asked for but i am not sure if i am looking in the right area please help

[phillyjenks]

ok where the front bez screws down the number 0687 is stamped pretty sure of number looking with a magnifing glass also in center of back cover is K265648 I don't see anything on the back where the cover screws down

[terry hall]

hmmm

what i was afraid of....0687 :(

the k265648 is the case serial number for the back anyway...

you "should" see 5648 stamped on the center ring frame ... and on the edge of the front bezel...

on the front bezel, it is 'possible' to have hand etched roman numerals... but i think they had switched to stamped numbers..

these partial numbers ensured the assembed case parts 'matched' at the case factory..

My research indicated the raised 'shoulders' on the center ring of the Model 11 and Model A cases disappeared in the K220xxx serial number range...

As your case back is higher... K265xxx, it arose suspicions of mis-matching parts.....

now 'when' did this happen..... dangedifIkno....
as this is a family piece... perhaps at a cleaning in the past... I can't tell...

see if you can find these other numbers.... this can disclose what parts are what...

[Robert Sweet]

According to the Hamilton serial number records, C276927 would have been made in 1949.

This being the case, IMHO, the melamine dials would have been used at this point.

Below is a 1949 catalog excerpt with the No. 11 and the available melamine dials.

Robert

[phillyjenks]

Is it possible that in the past the back cover was switched or replaced?
then again the number stamped on the front would not go with the serial number on the actual time peice I am totaly confused.

[terry hall]

Is it possible that in the past the back cover was switched or replaced

That is what identifying all the case markings will tell you... if the frame and front bezel are marked the same... back switched...

if the front and back match... frame was swapped....


then again the number stamped on the front would not go with the serial number on the actual time peice

only the case components will/should match... the case and movement number not matching is not an issue...

Robert... thanks for looking it up for date... i did not...

I would not throw it out because of the dial ;)

I don't think there can be a definitive cut off point for the dials... but i can be wrong also.

[Kent]

In the late 1970s I bought the 992B that I carry daily at a pawn shop in Jamaca (not the island, the part of Queens, NY that was a Long Island Rail Road division point). The bezel and frame are mismatched. Who knows when it was done, or why.

Maybe phillyjenks' grandfather got his the same way a bit later in life, say the 1960s. By then the watch would have been about twenty years old, traded in on a railroad grade wrist watch, and "fixed up" to be presentable for later sale to a transit worker who needed a reliable watch.

When I was a teenager, the guy who ran the local record shop was a retired transit worker (bus driver) who used a 992B. In fact, he got the 992B since he used one of those leather belt attachments that held the watch stem down (to be flipped up to read the time) and "needed" a watch that was adjusted in the sixth position.

Does anyone in the family know when grandpa got the watch?

[phillyjenks]

My Mother belives he purchased the watch before 1950 from a salesman who came to his bus terminal selling them. My grandfather paid X amount of dollars a week till it was paid for. I also have the leather holder he had. It attached to his belt so he could flip the watch up to see the time.

[phillyjenks]

OK After further examination this is what I have.
The back cover serial number is K265648.
Where the front glass screws down on the flat part of frame is a stamped number 0687 this number is covered when the glass is attached.
On the inside of the frame of the front glass cover is a roman numeral that looks like it was ingraved by hand to sloppy for a stamp i belive. it reads VI VIII VII or MI VIII VII. I think VI VIII VII is most likly being it reads 687. Hopefuly with this info someone can explain this to me. I am so confused and have no clue of the possibilities.
HELP!

[terry hall]

The hand engraved roman numerals are a challenge at times......

a Zero is usually an upside down V ... so the 'M' you mention could be two Vees side by side...

with the frame stamp as 0687 and the roman numerals showing (at least) 687 it would appear the case back has been changed at some point...

this is only an opinion as I cannot hold the watch in my hands and investigate.

No way anyone can determine the 'why's' 'when's' etc... I think you will still enjoy the watch as a heriloom....

[Robert Sweet]

Phillyjenks,

As watch collectors, we strive to collect timepieces as close to original as possible and in the best condition.

With respect to heirlooms, we are left or receive timepieces in various conditions. Some will be completely original; others will have various parts replaced sometime in the past. As for me, whatever condition I receive an item, it will remain in that condition until I no longer have control.

You have inherited a real nice timepiece, one that when introduced in 1940, was completely new with respect to both the movement (the works) and the watchcase. Your No. 11 case was used to introduce the new 992B in Nov. 1940. There were approx. 525,000; 992B’s produced over its approx. 30 year life span.

The 992B was produced from 1940 until production officially ended in 1969, but with clean-up models being assembled until about 1971.

Robert