New guy needs help

[w5wpl]

I was given my great grandfathers Elgin pocket watch. It works but I can't figure out how to set the time, the stem doesn't pull out. It is a 18s 19j grade 240 railroad BW Raymond #9949521 about 1902. With a Philadelphia Watchcase Co. Victory case. I've saw on the net today that these watches front might open. Is that the way I set the time? If so, How do I open it? It doesn't look like it does.
But the great thing is. My Great grandfather and I have the same name.
There were a lot of these made. So not worth much. But priceless to me. If you know someone near Houston that works on these let me know. I don't think it's ever been cleaned.

[s. smith]

It will be a lever set watch ,,try and unscrew the front bezel on the watch there will be a lever at about the 1 oclock postion pull that out and you will be able too then set the watch with the crown,,,after you set it push the lever back in and it will the return too winding postion..This is a Railroad grade watch and all of them were lever set..

The grade 240 is a nice watch and of good quailty..

[Robert Sweet]

W5WPl,
Welcome to the NAWCC American Pocket Watch message board.

Your grade 240 movement is described in a 1903, OSKAMP, NOLTING & CO. catalog as the following:

19 fine ruby jewels (raised gold setting), adjusted to temperature, isochronism and positions; quick train and gold wheels; straight line escapement with steel escape wheel; exposed pallets, compensating balance; Brequet hairspring; micrometric regulator; patent safety barrel with springbox rigidly mounted on bridge; barrel arbor pivots running in jewels; display winding work; patent recoiling click; patent self-locking setting device; double sunk glass enamel dial; dust ring; damaskeened plates; carefully timed, and finely finished throughout. $40.00

In this same catalog, the 21 jewel, Veritas was selling for $50.00, and the 23 jewel, Veritas for $60.00.

The 21 jewel Father Time was selling for $40.

With the above prices, you can get a feeling of how your watch rates among the other high grade movements when sold new.

Robert

[Kent]

Hi w5wpl:

Welcome to the NAWCC American Pocket Watch Message Board!

To add to what Sammy and Robert have posted you can see a picture and catalog description of the movement and the others that Robert mentioned on page 73 of the 1903 Oy Company Catalog (http://www.elginwatches.com/scans/sales_catalogs/1903_Oy_Company/m_index.html).

Many people have come to call any large old pocket watch, especially one with an engraving of a locomotive on the back of the case, a railroad watch. This usage is frequently is incorrect. The term "Railroad Watch" was used by the watch and jewelry trade (and is now used by collectors) to refer those high grade watches that met the requirements of railroad time service rules and standards. The railroad industry, and the railroaders themselves, referred to the watches as "Standard Watches," literally, those watches that met the railroads' time service standards.

Although the person who originally owned a watch may have worked for a railroad, it is not necessarily what could properly be called a "Railroad Watch." The use of a standard watch was only required of a portion of railroad employes (correct spelling, used in many older railroad documents), usually those directly involved in running the trains, or controlling, or affecting, the operation of trains. Other employes carried whatever watches they liked. Typical lists of those required to carry a standard watch appear in an 1892 report of Time Inspection on the Illinois Central Railroad (http://photos13.flickr.com/18116144_9bc4fcef3f_b.jpg) and as Standard Time Rule No. 2 in a 1901 Edition of Canadian Pacific Railway General, Train, and Interlocking Rules (http://photos9.flickr.com/13887167_289ea8006f_o.jpg). A later list of Burlington Route employes required to carry a standard watch is shown in these 1949 CB&Q Rules (http://static.flickr.com/45/174562668_28998da6c1_o.jpg). The Union Pacific RR website has concise explanations of Past and Present Railroad Job Descriptions (http://www.uprr.com/aboutup/history/jobs.shtml)

To learn more about railroad time service, time inspection and railroad standard watches, see ”Just What Is A Railroad Watch?” On the Pocket Horology, NAWCC Chapter 174 Website (http://www.pockethorology.org/) (scroll down to the title of the article). However, please keep in mind that information that became available since the above was written indicates that hunting-case watches were not specifically prohibited from railroad time service, at least, not as early as 1906-1908.

Watches that are carried daily need to be cleaned and oiled at regular intervals. Railroad time service rules varied, but requirements for cleaning on a basis of once every year and a half were typical for railroaders at the turn of the century. By the mid-1920’s this was extended to two year intervals.

The “Sears, Roebuck and Co., Inc. Catalogue No. 104,” Chicago, IL, 1897, reprinted by Chelsea House, Philadelphia, PA, 1968 had this to say on page 371:

“We Guarantee for Five Years All the movements sold by us. This does not refer to the life of the movement, but that we will for five years from date of purchase, correct free of charge any fault which may occur from defective material or workmanship. Any well made movement will run a lifetime if properly cared for.
“Remember That your watch should not run longer than one and one-half years without having the old oil cleaned off and fresh oil supplied. This must be done at the expense of the purchaser.
“The balance wheel of all modern watches makes 18,000 beats or revolutions per hour; 432,000 per day, or 157,788,000 per year. An engine or sewing machine will be oiled several times per day, but we have known people to carry a watch for ten years without having it cleaned or fresh oil applied.
“Usually, a movement thus treated is of no value, being entirely worn out. Take good care of your watch if you wish it to perform its duty properly, for it is a very delicate machine. Our charge for cleaning and oiling is 75 cents. The regular retail price is $1.50.”

Watch cleaning and oiling costs a bit more today than it did a hundred years ago. Check out What You Need To Know About Watch Repair (http://elginwatches.org/help/watch_repair.html) at Wayne Schlitt's Elgin Website.

Also, check out Frequently Asked Questions (http://www.pocketwatchsite.com/faq.html) on the Pocket Watch Site.

Also, Ed Ueberall, of The Escapement (https://home.comcast.net/~k_singer/Escapement.htm) has put together some notes on the Use And Care of Your Vintage Watch (http://k_singer.home.comcast.net/use_and_care_of_your_vintage_wat.htm) that may be helpful.

Service Frequency
If the watch is run continually, a cleaning and oiling is needed every 3-5 years. If you're only going to wear your watch occasionally, this ought to be done once at the onset and about every ten years thereafter. If you're not going to carry it (or run it), don't bother getting it serviced. Many of the watches in my collection (that aren't run) haven't been cleaned and oiled in 20 or 30 years or more.

Please let us know if you have any more questons.

Good luck,

[Robert Sweet]

With a Philadelphia Watchcase Co. Victory case.

w5wpl,
Your Philadelphia "Victory" case is made of "Rolled Gold Plate", Guaranteed for 10 years.

Robert

[w5wpl]

w5wpl,
Your Philadelphia "Victory" case is made of "Rolled Gold Plate", Guaranteed for 10 years.

Robert

First of all, thank you all for being so helpful. So this watch was gold plated at one time. Can I or even should I have it gold plated again?
And the dial is cracked near the 6:30 position. Don't think I'll have that replaced. This will never be sold.
Explain this to me.
Back in 1968 my father brought us Rado Mariners They had alittle green sea horse on them. They don't work anymore. I took mine to have it fixed. $400. they wanted. Jeweler put a value of $2500. for insurance. I took them to another jeweler with same results. I thinking wow. $10,000 here. But now I hear they're only worth $25.
Why do jewelers value these things the way they do. I thought Rado was a good watch. Now, not even worth getting fixed.

[Tom McIntyre]

First of all, thank you all for being so helpful. So this watch was gold plated at one time. Can I or even should I have it gold plated again?
And the dial is cracked near the 6:30 position. Don't think I'll have that replaced. This will never be sold.
Explain this to me.
Back in 1968 my father brought us Rado Mariners They had alittle green sea horse on them. They don't work anymore. I took mine to have it fixed. $400. they wanted. Jeweler put a value of $2500. for insurance. I took them to another jeweler with same results. I thinking wow. $10,000 here. But now I hear they're only worth $25.
Why do jewelers value these things the way they do. I thought Rado was a good watch. Now, not even worth getting fixed.

You might start another thread in the wristwatch forum, but for a quick answer, you are talking to retail jewelers. They are not in business to make you feel good, they want your money.

The Rado is a nice watch and is probably worth more than $25, but not worth as much as the COA will cost. If you have a sentimental attachment to them and want to wear them, get a better estimate on the cost. $400 is very likely high by about twice, but there is no way to tell without seeing the watches. Since I don't do this kind of work, I shouldn't even be estimating it this roughly. :/: