Hampden watch in a Jas. Boss case

[DeaconBlue]

Hello people,

I have a good sized pocket watch that was given to me by an ex-girlfriend.
It was her grandfathers. It has 2 doors - one showing the watch face, and one opens and contains a small round certificate with a number that matches the case. The watch part says "Hampden Watch Company" on the face and the certificate says "Jas. Boss 14k case #1452755" (or some such). A long time ago, I met the acquaintence of a man who collected pocket watches and he told me that this type (2 doors) was rare and worth a lot of money, especially with the accompianing certificate. I've kept a hold of this watch, which doesn't work and is missing the glass over the face, thinking that it might be valuble but I don't know enough about it. I would like to have it in
working condition but I'd never trust anybody to leave it with.
Can anybody give me information about this ????
I appreciate any info given. Thanks !

[Tom Huber]

Your Hampden watch is in a gold filled case. J. Boss cases are gold filled, not solid gold. Hunter cases (cases with the lid on the front) are not rare. The case paper in the back is a nice thing to still have, but it is not rare to have it either. Neither of these features makes any watch really valuable. There are many other variables that affect the value of any watch.

To see and ascertain what you have, we need to see a clear pic of the watch movement.

We will be able to tell you about your watch, but we can not discuss values on the board.

Tom

[Kent]

Hi DeaconBlue:

Welcome to the NAWCC American Pocket Watch Message Board!

To add to what Tom posted:

The type of watch case you're describing is called a hunting-case. It isn't overly valuable as such, although finding one that isn't worn is becoming harder. Having the original case paper is nice, but again, not overly valuable.

The history of the Hampden Watch Co. goes back to the New York Watch Co., a successor to the Mozart Watch Co. The New York Watch Co. “... was in business from about 1866 to 1877, during which time it made a variety of different grades of movements. Its total production is estimated to be less than 60,000.” (quote from Greg Frauenhoff) After a reorganization, the firm became the Hampden Watch Co. in 1877.

Dueber-Hampden’s story is told in “From Springfield To Moscow: The Complete Dueber-Hampden Story," (Revised and enlarged successor to the 1954 Supplement to the NAWCC Bulletin) James W. Gibbs, Philadelphia, PA, 1986 (available to members on loan by mail from the NAWCC Lending Library (http://www.nawcc.org/headquarters/members/mclibrary.htm)). Briefly, John C. Dueber established a watch case company in Newport, KY in the late 1870's. In the mid-to-late 1880's he purchased a controlling interest in the Hampden Watch Co. of Springfield, MA. Brief descriptions and list prices of some Hampden movements at this time may be seen online in a 530 Kb scan of an 1887 Catalog Supplement (http://static.flickr.com/27/43570061_f24bcaeb4e_b.jpg). In 1888-1889, both operations were moved to a dual, attached set of factory buildings in Canton, OH (http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y284/walt845/1889_Aug_Dueber_Factory_LR.jpg). The Dueber Watch Case Manufacturing Co. was a separate company from the Hampden Watch Co., although the ads used the Dueber-Hampden name and that name was (and still is) in common usage, and they were housed in adjacent buildings. Those two adjacent factory buildings may be seen in this Ad From 1900 (http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y284/walt845/1900_Lever_Set_LR.jpg). It stayed that way until about 1925 when they formally combined. The companies continued in business, producing both watches and cases until falling sales in the mid-1920's led to receivership in 1927. The manufacturing equipment, parts on hand and work in progress were sold to Russia. Operations ceased in 1930 when the machinery was shipped to Russia. It is believed that all factory records either went with the equipment, or were destroyed, and there are no surviving records from which to match serial numbers of watches against models and grades. Nevertheless, Messrs. J. Hernick and R. Arnold, by collecting descriptions of Dueber-Hampden watches, with serial numbers, over a decade or more, were able to partially reconstruct the serial number vs. grade/description list. This was published in The Hampden Watch Co., NAWCC Special Order Supplement #1, J. Hernick and R. Arnold, NAWCC, Columbia, PA, 1997 (also available to members on loan by mail from the NAWCC Lending Library (http://www.nawcc.org/headquarters/members/mclibrary.htm)).

Basic information about a Dueber-Hampden watch may be obtained online using Henry Burgell's Interactive Hampden Serial Number Lookup Table (http://www.nawcc-ch149.com/db_resch/Hampden_1230.html). Since this is based upon a "recreated" serial number list (the factory records were lost or destroyed), there may be occasional errors. Oldwatch.com's Hampden Production Date Chart (http://www.oldwatch.com/hampdendate.html), or the Pocket Watch Site's Hampden Date Table (http://www.pocketwatchsite.com/hampdenserials.html), are also online means for determining the very approximate production date of Hampden pocket watches. Use the serial number on the movement (the “works”), not the serial number on the case. In general, we think of serial number vs. date lists - created by using the average number of watches produced over a period of years - to only be accurate within a year or two at best, and recognize that there are numerous exceptions wherein which the dates may be off as much as 3 years or more. This is not just for Hampden, but for other watch manufacturers as well.

If you can tell us the markings on the movement (the "works") and also post a picture of the movement, we ought to be able to tell you something about it.

Only a small percentage of American watches (or Swiss watches for the North American market) were cased at the factories prior to the mid-1920's (even then, uncased movements were furnished to the trade at least until the 1960's). Most watch companies just made movements (the "works") in industry standard sizes. The case companies made cases in those same sizes. The practice at that time was to go to a jeweler, select the quality of the movement and then pick out the desired style and quality of case. The jeweler would then fit the movement to the case in a matter of moments.

Or, watches were sold by mail-order. Large outfits such as Sears, Roebuck & Co., Montgomery Ward, or T. Eaton (in Canada), would offer the movements in a variety of cases of different design and quality in their catalogs. Smaller mail-order retailers would case the watches, typically in a 20-year gold filled case and offer it only that way, with the buyer not having a choice of cases.

Note: The grade of a case is the quality of the materials and work that went into it. Each case grade was offered in many different engraved designs.

A short history of American watch cases, within the online article "Decorative Aspects of American Horology," by Philip Poniz, can be viewed on The Antiquorum Magazine (http://www.antiquorum.com/vox/june_2002/poniz/poniz.htm) website.

All cases marked "J. Boss" or "Jas. Boss" or having a balance (scale) as a trade mark (indicating that it is a J. Boss grade case) are gold-filled cases. The following chronology and information is from "History of the American Watch Case," Warren H. Niebling, Whitmore Publishing, Philadelphia, PA, 1971 (available on loan by mail to members from the NAWCC Lending Library (http://www.nawcc.org/headquarters/members/mclibrary.htm)), with additional notes in blue based upon an article in an 1889 issue of The Keystone, posted by Greg Frauenhoff, 30-Apr-04 and quotes in brown, based upon the online article "Decorative Aspects of American Horology (http://www.antiquorum.com/vox/june_2002/poniz/poniz.htm)," by Philip Poniz, on The Antiquorum Magaizine Website:

1853 - Randolf & Reese Peters were making cases in Philadelphia, employing James Boss.

1859 - J. Boss received a patent for "spinning up" cases made of "gold-filled" type material. That is, material made of a sheet of composition metal (usually brass) sandwiched between two thin sheets of gold. Boss formed cases by rolling sheet metal as opposed to the traditional method involving soldering and cutting. Rolling increased the molecule density of the metal. His patent, No. 23,820 of May 3, 1859, revolutionized the watch case industry by enabling the production of not only less expensive, but considerably stronger cases. ... Unlike gold washed cases, which were made using electroplating, cases produced by means of rolling had much harder gold surfaces and were thus less apt to wear.

1871 - J. Boss sold patent rights to John Stuckert of Philadelphia.

1875 - T.B. Hagstoz & Charles N. Thorpe formed Hagstoz & Thorpe, purchasing the manufacturing facilities (within which, 12 employees produced 6 cases per day at 618 Chesnut St.) and "J. Boss" patent from the estate of John Stuckert. Hagstoz & Thorpe seems to have made only gold-filled cases using the J. Boss patented method.

1876+ - ... orders increased so rapidly that larger quarters became necessary immediately. The landlord of their first premises, 618 Chestnut Street, was George W. Childs, ... When Childs’ learned of his tenants’ need for more work space, he offered $100,000 and became a silent third partner. A new plant on Brown Street was erected ...

1877 - E. Tracy, a manufacturer of solid gold and silver watch cases, was acquired.

1880 - the company moved to a six story building on Nineteenth St., with an equal-size annex on Wylie St.

1883 - 1885 - T.B Hagstoz withdrew from the company which became C.N. Thorpe Co. and shortly thereafter it was reorganized as the Keystone Watch Case Co.

1887 - the Nineteenth St. building was almost doubled in size and a four story adjacent building was occupied by Keystone.

1889 - the firm was producing 1,500 cases per day.

Keystone then went on to absorb other case companies (and several watch companies). For example, Jerry Treiman reported in a message board thread (about a watch made by the U.S. Watch Co.) that "... the history provided in legal documents for the anti-trust case against Keystone ... states that all of the capital stock of a newly organized Philadelphia Watch Case Co. (August 1900) was owned by Keystone." Thus, Keystone become one of the largest case manufacturers in the country. The combined company built a large factory in Riverside, NJ (http://www.riversidenjhistory.com/PhotoWatchcase.html) in 1907. Keystone stayed in business another 80+ years.

"J. Boss" or"Jas. Boss" cases are gold-filled, guaranteed for 15 (maybe), 20 or 25 years. A 1907 Keystone Ad (http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y284/walt845/1907_Aug_7_Keystone_J_Boss_with_Not.jpg) shows their balance (scale) & crown trade mark used on their 25-year Jas. Boss (J. Boss) cases, and the plain balance trade mark identifying their 20-year J. Boss cases.

Check out What You Need To Know About Watch Repair (http://elginwatches.org/help/watch_repair.html) at Wayne Schlitt's Elgin Website. Also, you might consider The Escapement
http://static.flickr.com/45/120095643_673b3aa186_o.jpg (https://home.comcast.net/~k_singer/Escapement.htm)
Click for info.

Good luck,

[DeaconBlue]

Thanks for the info ! I can probably post a couple decent photos of the watch but not of the movement (works) because I don't know how to get the thing open without destroying it. Happen I wanted to get this watch working again, who would be a good *reputable* *trustworthy* person to talk to ????

[Kent]

You might find the information in "How To Open A Pocket Watch Case (https://home.comcast.net/~k_singer/Opening_Pocket_Watch_Cases__k.htm)" useful.

As noted above, for reliable, ethical watch service, you might consider The Escapement
http://static.flickr.com/45/120095643_673b3aa186_o.jpg (https://home.comcast.net/~k_singer/Escapement.htm)
Click for info.

Good luck,