Grandpa's Waltham

[daredevil]

Please help. Just received Waltham Windsor pocket watch. Serial #10742126. Could anyone give information on this watch? Thanks!

[Kent]

Hi daredevil:

Welcome to the NAWCC American Pocket Watch Message Board!

The American Waltham Watch Co. (Waltham, MA) had its origins in the 1850's. It was the first successful company in America to manufacture watches in mass production using machinery to make identical (or at least, near identical) parts. Over the next hundred years or so of its existence, its output of jeweled watches (over 34 million) was only exceeded by one other company, the National Watch Co. at Elgin, IL. Commonly referred to as "Waltham," the company made a full line of watches ranging from modest, affordable watches to some of the finest watches made in this country.

You can find out some basic facts about your Waltham watch by entering the serial number on the movement (the "works") in the field on the Serial Number link accessable from the NAWCC Information Storage (http://www.nawcc-info.org/WalthamDB/walsernum.htm) website. Don't use any commas in entering the serial number.

There is also a Glossary (http://www.nawcc-info.org/WalthamDB/Glossary.htm) of the terms provided by the serial number lookup. Note: When a number appears by itself in the Comment Column, it is the page in the factory serial list where the entry and explanation appeared. i.e. "Comment 42" is on page 42 of Serial Numbers With Description of Waltham Watch Movements, Waltham Watch Co., Waltham, MA, 1954, (commonly referred to as "The Gray Book").

Should the date not be listed in the search of the NAWCC Information Storage - Waltham Serial Number Data Base, Oldwatch.com's Waltham Production Date Chart (http://www.oldwatch.com/walthamdate.html), or the Pocket Watch Site's Waltham Date Table (http://www.pocketwatchsite.com/walthamserials.html) are a means for determining the approximate production date. In general, we think of serial number vs. date lists - created by using the average number of watches produced over a period of years - to only be accurate within a year or two at best, and recognize that there are numerous exceptions wherein which the dates may be off as much as 3 years or more. This is not just for Waltham, but for other watch manufacturers as well.

Having looked up movement serial number 10,742,126 in the above references, it can be seen to be a size-6, ladies, Seaside grade movement. This is not the sort of watch I would expect to have belonged to your grandfather. Perhaps you've given us the serial number on the case.

It would be helpful if you could post a picture of the movement (the "works"), the clearer and sharper, the better, other pictures will help a little, but this is the most important. We may be able to identify it by seeing the pictures. In trying to open the watch, you might find the information in "How To Open A Pocket Watch Case (https://home.comcast.net/~k_singer/Opening_Pocket_Watch_Cases__k.htm)" useful.

To post an image, scroll to the top of the thread and click on "FAQ," then scroll down to "vBulletin FAQ" and click on the "How to post images" and follow the instructions. Note that there is no indication of attaching a file (picture) until you go to actually post your thread or your reply. The picture does not show up in the "Instant Reply" text box in which you've written your thread or your reply, nor does the picture appear in the "Preview"

Its also helpful if you can post all the markings that are on the movement (the "works") in case they can't be seen in the picture(s).

Only a small percentage of American watches (or Swiss watches for the North American market) were cased at the factories prior to the mid-1920's (even then, uncased movements were furnished to the trade at least until the 1960's). Most watch companies just made movements (the "works") in industry standard sizes. The case companies made cases in those same sizes. The practice at that time was to go to a jeweler, select the quality of the movement and then pick out the desired style and quality of case. The jeweler would then fit the movement to the case in a matter of moments.

Or, watches were sold by mail-order. Large outfits such as Sears, Roebuck & Co., Montgomery Ward, or T. Eaton (in Canada), would offer the movements in a variety of cases of different design and quality in their catalogs. Smaller mail-order retailers would case the watches, typically in a 20-year gold filled case and offer it only that way, with the buyer not having a choice of cases.

Note: The grade of a case is the quality of the materials and work that went into it. Each case grade was offered in many different engraved designs.

A short history of American watch cases, within the online article "Decorative Aspects of American Horology," by Philip Poniz, can be viewed on The Antiquorum Magazine (http://www.antiquorum.com/vox/june_2002/poniz/poniz.htm) website.

If you can tell us about (or post a picture of) the trade marks or names stamped into the inside back of the case, we may be able to tell you a little about the case material and its manufacturer.

Good luck,

[daredevil]

Thank you, Kent. I guess I just took for granted it was Grandpa's watch. I actually received it after my Mother passed. The serial # was taken from the movement. It has another # on case. #7046958, "Windsor" guaranteed 20 years, B.W.C. CO. Maybe pictures tomorrow, my photographer is asleep. Thank you.

[Kent]

The case is a gold-filled case made by the Brooklyn Watch Case Co. The Brooklyn Watch Case Co. (BWCCo.) is discussed in the book, History of the American Watch Case, Warren H. Niebling, Whitmore Publishing, Philadelphia, PA, 1971 (available on loan by mail to members from the NAWCC Lending Library (http://www.nawcc.org/headquarters/members/mclibrary.htm)). Information on the company has also appeared in an article entitled "The Story of Hayden W. Wheeler," by Howard Lasser, NAWCC Bulletin, October 2005, 549-550. Notes based upon this article will appear in blue. Mr. Niebling describes the firm as starting in New York City in 1865 and moving to Brooklyn (at that time, a separate city, one of the country's largest) in 1866. Hayden W. Wheeler formed the Brooklyn Watch Case Co. on March 10, 1873 to devise methods for the mass production of watch cases. Joseph Fahys was one of the original directors of the company. The company started out by making gold and silver cases, but production of the silver cases eventually ceased. 18-karat and 14-karat cases were made in some quantity prior to the firm moving to Warren St, near Fourth Ave. in Brooklyn. Brooklyn made gold-filled cases, and 14-karat solid gold cases, but is perhaps best known for its line of Eagle solid 8K gold cases. However, Brooklyn offered a Variety of Grades (http://photos7.flickr.com/10756891_df9c6699ac_o.jpg), detailed below. Sometime in the late 1890s or early 1900s, Brooklyn was bought out by Joseph Fahys & Co. a major watch case company who had been listed in Brooklyn ads since 1896 as their selling agent. Joseph Fahys acquired Brooklyn prior to Wheeler's retirement in 1891, by which time the firm was producing 75,000 cases per year. Fahys continued using the Brooklyn name and trade marks.

Brooklyn appears to have only made two grades of gold-filled cases for a short time:
Bristol (http://photos5.flickr.com/10795432_869b65dc7f_o.jpg) - - 25 Year, 14K gold-filled. Introduced around 1905, production taken over by Fahys in about 1907 (dates approximate).
Windsor - 20 Year gold-filled. Introduced around 1902 and seemingly phased out around 1907. (dates approximate).

[Don Dahlberg]

The 6 size watch was an intermediate size watch. It is often refered to as the largest ladies watch and the smallest man's watch. It was a popular size for a child.

So this might have been your grandmother's watch. It might have been your grandfather's watch as a child. Or perhaps, he just liked small watches.

Don