cuckoo/gong instead of gong/cuckoo

[Need2Know]

My first posting...please be gentle! I have an early 1900's or so American Cuckoo that was recently taken apart and cleaned by a gentleman that does that kind of thing. Now, instead of the strike coming before the voice, it is the other way around.After 20+ years of counting time the other way it's driving me nuts. I called him up to ask, he said he wasn't sure why that is or really how to correct it. Just my luck. So last night my world was a flashlight and jewelers glasses. I see how the pinned wheel does the job of activating the bellows and strike arm, but could not figure out a way to get it to START with the stike. If it's a clue, I also notice after the service was done, it arms the warn (hope that's the right wording) whenever we wind it. I guess the question is, can a guy that is moderately mechanical, determined to succeed, and patient as Job fix this? I've read 20 pages or so of your postings on cuckoo advice and trust your steeering! Thanks.

[shutterbug]

Hey need! Welcome! Here's the deal ..... your repairman erred and needs to redo the job. You paid for a service that was not provided. Why would you try to do HIS job for him? If he's repairing clocks, he needs to be able to do it right. So my advise is to call him, tell him your nerves are frayed and you need him to look at it again. I'm sure he'll be able to figure out what he did wrong. If not, tell him about this board and we'll help him fix it. OK? :)

[bangster]

Here's an idea: If the star wheel has a setscrew, loosen the setscrew and turn the wheel (on the arbor) so that a lifting prong is just below, but not touching, the arm of the gong lever. Then re-tighten the setscrew. That way, the gong lever will be the first one lifted.

bangster

[Scottie-TX]

From working on so many cuckoos, BONG's nearly bald now and what little hair remains is gray. Cuckoos can do that. But he gotcha goin' in the right direction. I can tell by your determination, schutzpah, tenacity, etc. that you'll be able to suss it out. Probably next time you'll fix 'er yourself and not even take it to a shop. Unless of course you're averse to baldness.

[eclecticbeat]

Hi Need2Know,.

Most pre-mid 20th c. cuckoo clocks do not have the luxury of an adjustable pin wheel.
The strike train needs to be 'indexed' during movement assembly. :eek:

o:) Ideally, no lever is to be resting on any pinwheel pin, at stop or after going into warning - while still providing the correct order of strike, then call.

If God knew Satan was going to give Job a cuckoo clock like those to repair - He'd no doubt still win but would have wanted odds :)

[Need2Know]

Hi Need2Know,.

Most pre-mid 20th c. cuckoo clocks do not have the luxury of an adjustable pin wheel.
The strike train needs to be 'indexed' during movement assembly. :eek:

o:) Ideally, no lever is to be resting on any pinwheel pin, at stop or after going into warning - while still providing the correct order of strike, then call.

If God knew Satan was going to give Job a cuckoo clock like those to repair - He'd no doubt still win but would have wanted odds :)

Looking at it right now I just found there is no set screw or any way to rotate it on the shaft. Is there a relatively non-invasive way to get this done? I'm not shy about taking things apart, but sometime a little embarassed when it comes to putting them back together :rolleyes:

[bangster]

You can probly remove the three strike levers and swap their positions, without disassembling the movement (as mentioned in this (http://mb.nawcc.org/showthread.php?t=46967) thread).

bangster

[T.J. Kloss]

Need

Here is a picture of a typical cuckoo lever arrangement. I've circled the levers in question.

Starting from the top down.

Top lever is the gong lever.

Center is a lifting lever for one pipe.

Bottom is a lifting lever is for the second pipe.

T. J. Kloss

[Need2Know]

Bangster, I did read that thread the other night and checked mine out. It looks like this one is on right if the anchoring wire from the gong lever is supposed to go under the bent rod. And like the picture from T.J. the order is the same. Also, from what I've read in other threads and from electicbeat, it's not resting correctly because you can see the pin in contact with the bellows lever, and they are partially open.
If the picture posts ok, have a looky. Many thanks you all.
Humbled by your knowledge.:clap:

[shutterbug]

There is a lot of variation in movements, but I suspect that your bottom two levers are reversed. You'd also have to reverse their wires :)

[eclecticbeat]

Looking at it right now I just found there is no set screw or any way to rotate it on the shaft. Is there a relatively non-invasive way to get this done? I'm not shy about taking things apart, but sometime a little embarassed when it comes to putting them back together :rolleyes:

Not that I know of N2K,
Yours has no indexing adjustment other than during assembly.
Winding it should not cause the train to go into warning unless it's on the very edge of going into warning anyway.
That only happens twice an hour @ ~ xx:25 and ~ xx:55.
You may have some other trouble lurking in there that may take total diassembly to figure out.

If it's a clue, I also notice after the service was done, it arms the warn (hope that's the right wording) whenever we wind it.

[bkerr]

Bug, I do not think that the levers are reversed. So far, all of the ones I have worked on have the shorter lever on the left (facing the back). I'd look for a bent pin but this would only be at one position.

Take a look at the gong lever, go backwards. There should be pins on a wheel that lift the gong and call levers. As that wheel turns it picks up a lever on the pin and drops. This gets lift to those wires. I'd look to see that one of those pins did not get bent.

You most likely will have to get the movement out of the case to really see what is going on. You might be albe to open the side door and take a peek. Nice clock.

Good luck!

[bangster]

Bangster, I did read that thread the other night and checked mine out. It looks like this one is on right if the anchoring wire from the gong lever is supposed to go under the bent rod. And like the picture from T.J. the order is the same. Also, from what I've read in other threads and from electicbeat, it's not resting correctly because you can see the pin in contact with the bellows lever, and they are partially open.
If the picture posts ok, have a looky. Many thanks you all.
Humbled by your knowledge.:clap:

Then there's no help for it. You're gonna have to separate the plates, at least enough to re-index the star wheel. Gotta have that prong on the star wheel right up next to, but not touching, the prong on the gong lever, when the train locks.

bangster

...wait a minute. I just took another look at your picture. If I'm seeing it right, the gong lever is UNDERNEATH the "bounce pin". Should be on top of it. Lever falls, hits the pin, head flexes down, goes boink! on the gong and recoils. Check that out and see if I'm right.

bangster

[bkerr]

Bang, would it not flip up and over after one reveloution?

I think you are on to something.

[Need2Know]

Bangster, if I understand the lingo, you see the lever between the spokes of the count wheel, just about the 8 o'clock location, in a down position? Yep that is from the boink lever. That takes us to the thing I'm trying to change, to get that to be the first thing to happen...gong. I do believe we may have arrived at my (gulp) need to separate the plates to rotate that star wheel. That's going to be the way to go me thinks....?

[bkerr]

Wait !!! Hold On !!!

If you cycle through one time I think it will correct it. You'll have to keep the hammer lifted (use a light string) and with the weights on move the hand (minute) forward. This might do the trick, well it's worth a try

[Need2Know]

Wait !!! Hold On !!!

If you cycle through one time I think it will correct it. You'll have to keep the hammer lifted (use a light string) and with the weights on move the hand (minute) forward. This might do the trick, well it's worth a try
When you say cycle through, that means move the minute hand to the next halfhour spot? I actually did this last week, but I held up the two bellows levers. What ended up happening was it just went back to the exact same spot on the star wheel. But you can bet I'll try it holding up the hammer lever! :o

[harold bain]

That won't work. There is no "correction" on these movements. The plates need to be separated to realign the star wheel.

[eclecticbeat]

If the strike arbor retaining wire is underneath the stop pin - it's doing nothing or the pinwheel wouldn't be able to rotate the arbor. I'm wondering of the return spring tension is also reversed.

[Need2Know]

That won't work. There is no "correction" on these movements. The plates need to be separated to realign the star wheel.
When this is done, is it simply the four nuts in the corners? Should the works be removed from the "clockbox" for easier access? Leave it in the upright or lay it down? Will things tend to fly apart or become misaligned when separated? To be safe I'll take pictures of everything b4 starting. Can't tonight though, choir practice! Plus I'm figuring power will go out with the high winds coming.....

[harold bain]

You will need to remove it from the case. Unlike a spring drive movement, the parts won't fly out. You lift the bottom plate after loosening the nuts, just enough to free the pivot of the arbor that needs moving. Then it becomes trial and error to line it up right.

[bangster]

What's this?
28012

[bangster]

Hey Need...
Before you start splitting the plates (and while I'm waiting for an answer to the above question), here's what I want you to do. All this is reversible.

1. Disconnect the lift wires from the bellows lift levers.
2. Rotate the bellows 1 lever 1/2 turn clockwise, and lift it out of the movement.
3. Do the same with bellows lever 2.
4. Manually turn the train until the star wheel is about to touch the gong lever.
5. Clip a clothespin onto the fan, so the train doesn't run any further.
6. Put the other levers back in, in reverse order.
7. Hook up the wires, remove the clothespin, run the train, and see what happens.

bangster

[Need2Know]

Bangster, I'll follow the instructions and let you know. Didn't realize those levers could be rotated and removed. Here is a closer look for an answer to the "what's this". A return spring for the strike lever?

[Need2Know]

All, need2know now knows. I tried getting those bellows levers off but they appear to be a solid shaft that runs through to the front plate and screws in. Since I was reluctant to take the whole mechanism out of the case I loosened up the plates, indexed the star wheel about three teeth clockwise and got it back to original sound. Yeeha! I may have created another problem but to tired to keep going tonight. At one point the lever that lifts up and lets the count wheel go around didn't quite lift up all the way, by just a few thousandths I guess, and it slowed down the cookooing for a few seconds. I wonder if I may have slightly bent something while fumbling around in there. At any rate, thank you all for getting me thru. Never ever would have tried it without the support.

[Heritage-Clocks]

All, need2know now knows. I tried getting those bellows levers off but they appear to be a solid shaft that runs through to the front plate and screws in. Since I was reluctant to take the whole mechanism out of the case I loosened up the plates, indexed the star wheel about three teeth clockwise and got it back to original sound. Yeeha! I may have created another problem but to tired to keep going tonight. At one point the lever that lifts up and lets the count wheel go around didn't quite lift up all the way, by just a few thousandths I guess, and it slowed down the cookooing for a few seconds. I wonder if I may have slightly bent something while fumbling around in there. At any rate, thank you all for getting me thru. Never ever would have tried it without the support.

I think that if the Cuckoo slows down at first.It maybe that you have the levers picking up in warning,and causing a loss of power.

H/C

[T.J. Kloss]

That won't work. There is no "correction" on these movements. The plates need to be separated to realign the star wheel.

Been there,done that. Harold is absolutely correct, cycling it will not correct the problem. The resting position of the star wheel is determined by the locking mechanism further up the train. IMHO, These older cuckoo movements can be a bear to synchronize

T. J. Kloss :cool:

[bangster]

Yeah, well, I thought my suggestion was worth a try.

Looky here, NEED; pulling the movement out of the case is no big deal. It just takes a few steps. Once it's out you can work on it properly. Here are the steps.

1. Remove the hands, weights, and pendulum.
2. Remove the hooks and rings from the ends of the chains. (Twist the link open. Save the link. You'll twist it shut again when you put the hooks & rings back on.)
3. Open the bird door and unhook the wire from the door.
4. Open the back of the clock (you've done that already).
5. Disconnect the bellows lift wires.
6. Remove the bellows. Each should be held in place by one screw and one nail. Remove the screw and pry the bellows off the nail. Leave the nail there. It'll help you get the bellows located when you put it back in.
6. Remove the four mounting screws.
7. Lift the movement out of the case. Helps to tilt it so the bottom end comes out first...easier then to maneuver the bird's tail out.
8. Drag out the chains from their holes.
9. Voila!

Now it's out where you can actually work on it. :thumb:

bangster