Private Label Columbus

[RR Approved]

I'm not a Columbus expert, so I'm looking for some help identifing the model/grade number of a private label, 18s Columbus. The dial and movement are both marked "A.M. Hill New Orleans". Hill was a jeweler in New Orleans during the 1880's. The movement serial number is 75537. The movement is housed in a 14k Waltham hunting case. The movement does not indicate the number of jewels, but does note "Safety Pinion". Any help is appreciated.

[RR Approved]

I'm not a Columbus expert, so I'm looking for some help identifing the model/grade number of a private label, 18s Columbus. The dial and movement are both marked "A.M. Hill New Orleans". Hill was a jeweler in New Orleans during the 1880's. The movement serial number is 75537. The movement is housed in a 14k Waltham hunting case. The movement does not indicate the number of jewels, but does note "Safety Pinion". Any help is appreciated.

[Kent]

RR Approved:

Many Columbus watch grades are identified by their damaskeening pattern (or lack thereof) and jeweling. Usually, watches with 17 or more jewels are so marked, as are those watches built after 1893 or 1894. If its got a center jewel and is unmarked, it's likely to be 16-jewel.

The books "American Pocket Watch Encyclopedia and Price Guide Volume 1," and "American Pocket Watch Identification and Price Guide Book 2," both by Roy Ehrhardt, Heart of America Press, Kansas City, (still in print, see Heart of America Press (http://www.hoapress.com)) show many of the damaskeening patterns of Columbus movements and identify their grades. The booklet "History and Products of the Columbus Watch Company," Greg R. Frauenhoff, 2003 (available at this Link To Greg’s Books (http://hometown.aol.com/gfrauen10/books.html)) also has this kind of information.

If you can provide a good picture of your watch movement, we may be able to identify it.

Kent

[RR Approved]

Kent,
Thanks for the help. I don't have the watch with me - a friend brought it to me to identify. I will try to get a picture if possible. I do remember that it has no damaskeening pattern but can't remember if there is a center jewel - I'll have to get back to you on that.
David

[Kent]

David:

It'll make a difference if the plates have a gilt finish or if they're nickel. Also, whether or not its marked "Adjusted."

[Fred Hansen]

David -

Was there anything unusual about the style of marking of the name on the dial of this watch?

I own an Aurora private-labelled for AM Hill and it has an unusual (artistic) cursive font for the name marking on the dial.

Just wondering if Hill's other private-label products were marked similarly ...

Fred

[RR Approved]

Fred,
I hope to get pictures soon - I've contacted the owner to see if he will bring it back for that purpose. The script on the dial and movement reminds me of the type style utilized on the 18s Illinois Gothic Dials. 1-12 are Roman Numerals.

Do you know anything about Hill? A Google search revealed he was a jeweler with a shop on Common Street (Upper Uptown Side) of New Orleans.

On a side note, the watch was his great grandfather's who also lived in New Orleans. The inscription on the dust cover is his great grandfather's name and a date of 1888. According to Shugart, the serial number would indicate a production date of approximately 1887, so the inscription supports that.

[RR Approved]

Oh yeah, I forgot to ask. Is it strange that a Columbus would be in a Waltham case? Obviously I know that the movement could have been moved from case to case over the last 117 years, but the case has the 1888 inscription leading me to believe that it may be original to the movement. Just wondering.

Kent - I do remember that the plates are nickel.
David

[Kent]

David:

Waltham operated a case company during the 1880's. Anybody could buy a Waltham case to house their watch. An excerpt from a distributor's catalog can be seen at:
elginwatches.org/scans/sales_catalogs/1887_S_F_Myers/m_sr_w_brace.html
(you should copy this address and paste it in your browser address bar)

Kent

[Fred Hansen]

David -

I have done no research Hill, but one of the Ehrhardt/Meggers references does note a private label Illinois and Hampden grade marked for Hill, both from the 1880's.

Here is a photo of the AM Hill dial that is on my Aurora watch, and I found the unusual style of signature with his name to be interesting ...

http://images.snapfish.com/33%3A6%3B7%3B523232%7Ffp54%3Dot%3E232%3A%3D585%3D% 3B3%3B%3DXROQDF%3E2323539563398ot1lsi

What I was wondering was if Hill's products by other companies also carried this style signature, or if this was limited to just the Aurora products.

A few more pics ...

Dial Signature Close-Up (http://images.snapfish.com/33%3A6%3B7%3B523232%7Ffp58%3Dot%3E232%3A%3D585%3D% 3B3%3B%3DXROQDF%3E23235395633%3A3ot1lsi)

Aurora movement marked for AM Hill (http://images.snapfish.com/33%3A6%3B7%3B523232%7Ffp54%3Dot%3E232%3A%3D585%3D% 3B3%3B%3DXROQDF%3E232353956339%3Bot1lsi)

Fred