Problem with Chauncey Ives wooden movement clock

[Jeff Broido]

Folks,

I have yet another problem. Some time ago, my wife and I purchased two Chauncey Ives clocks with wooden movements at auction. I disassembled the movement of the first clock, cleaned and lubricated it, it keeps good time and we sold it to a satisfied customer. So far so good.

The other required a new splash painting, which my wife did, and we listed it on eBay, basing the listing on that from the first clock, and then discovered (after claiming that it kept good time) that it's running very fast. In 10.5 hours, for example, it's one hour and ten minutes fast.

The bob is a relatively modern replacement (regulator type, sheet brass front, lead body) and is set at its longest possible setting, which has it very close to the bottom of the case. I originally thought of increasing the mass of the bob, but remembered my mechanics and I don't think that will do a thing.

If anyone cares to, they can click HERE (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7334819111) for a look at the auction, including close-ups of the movement. I did take it all apart for cleaning and lubrication and found no apparent changes in gearing or anything. Frankly, I'm completely flummoxed. If anyone can offer any advice, it will be greatly appreciated.

Regards,
Jeff

[Jeff Broido]

Folks,

I have yet another problem. Some time ago, my wife and I purchased two Chauncey Ives clocks with wooden movements at auction. I disassembled the movement of the first clock, cleaned and lubricated it, it keeps good time and we sold it to a satisfied customer. So far so good.

The other required a new splash painting, which my wife did, and we listed it on eBay, basing the listing on that from the first clock, and then discovered (after claiming that it kept good time) that it's running very fast. In 10.5 hours, for example, it's one hour and ten minutes fast.

The bob is a relatively modern replacement (regulator type, sheet brass front, lead body) and is set at its longest possible setting, which has it very close to the bottom of the case. I originally thought of increasing the mass of the bob, but remembered my mechanics and I don't think that will do a thing.

If anyone cares to, they can click HERE (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7334819111) for a look at the auction, including close-ups of the movement. I did take it all apart for cleaning and lubrication and found no apparent changes in gearing or anything. Frankly, I'm completely flummoxed. If anyone can offer any advice, it will be greatly appreciated.

Regards,
Jeff

[Sooth]

Your problem is more than likely caused by the unoriginal, and MUCH TOO SHORT verge.

The wire of the verge should come down to about either an inch from the bottom front plate (roughly) or lower (I'd have to check some of my photos to be sure).

If that's still not the problem, then it might be that the movement was replaced, and was made for a taller clock. Wood works clocks were made up to 36 inches tall. The taller the case, the fewer teeth there are on the escape wheel (you may need to check how much a typical Pillar and scroll has to be sure it's original).

I think it's just the verge. I can clearly see it in the little video, and it's making the pendulum swing WAY too fast.

[Jeff Broido]

Sooth,

Thanks for your reply! In the meantime, an update. I replaced the bob with one with a somewhat lower center of mass, slightly increasing the effective length of the pendulum system, and it appears to have slowed-down significantly. Now, however, at the slower speed, it runs enthusiastically for a time, needing no encouragement at all to start except pushing the bob slightly to the side and letting go, and then stops for no apparent reason after about a half hour, at which point it starts-up enthusiastically once again with no trouble. Despite the fact that I took the momement completely apart, perhaps there's something hanging-up slightly. Still, I think we're past the worst problem.

As for the verge, yes, it is decidedly odd. The reason it's oddly curved is to keep the point where it contacts the pendulum's torsion spring high, for the torsion spring is short and, right below the coupling, it switches to wire as usual. Indeed, the movement is possibly not the one original for the case, though it certainly is as old as it should be and is appropriate. Still, as long as I can keep it running properly, I doubt that matters much, assuming it's true. I just checked the case with a level and tipped it back slightly, and that might help as well.

I am confused about something you said... Since the period of any simply pendulum is goverened mainly by the elevation (lower gravity at higher elevations) and the length of the pendulum shaft, how can a "bad" verge affect it? Indeed, the energy transmitted to the verge by the escapement does overcome friction and keep the system going, but I was under the impression (probably mistaken) that this had little to do with the speed. As you can see, I'm no clock expert; just an old fart who was a Math. major in college in the 1960s and has always liked to tinker.

Regards,
Jeff

[Sooth]

Well, the verge shouldn't be close to the suspension at all, actually. It should be on the "plain wire" section.

The verge has a lot to do with the speed. If the verge were longer, the swing of the pendulum (left to right) would decrease. It's hard to just explain, without just seeing it.

Basically, the verge pallets should hit only halfway through the teeth of the escape wheel. The pendulum should only swing approximately 2 inches side to side (at the base).

The pendulum should also be centered on the middle opening of the glass, so that you would see it swinging through the opening. Like this one:

http://home.gwi.net/~troberts/clockfolk/Antiques/antiqueclocks/P&SOpen.jpeg (http://home.gwi.net/~troberts/clockfolk/Antiques/antiqueclocks/P&SOpen.jpeg)

Alright, this photo shows EXACTLY what I mean, and the correct size/height/shape of the verge:

http://www.adamsbrown.com/sethscroll/works.jpg

More pictures of the same clock and movement are found here:
http://www.adamsbrown.com/ sethscroll/