Hampden Pocket Watch

[greenhorn8]

Hi - I am new to the American pocket watch world and would love some help and/or advice. I have a Hampden watch with a serial # on the movement backing of 1530422. I believe this was produced in 1901/02. What is confusing is the case it came with is from the Illinois Watch Case Co., has a detailed floral design on the back, and a paperlike design on the inside with a No. listed; 417403. Can someone shed some light on what I might have? Thanks!

[tomrsey]

According to Henry Burgell's data base, you have an 18 size, 7 jewel, grade "Champion", stem wind, lever set watch produced in 1901.

Cases from many companies were used to case watches. Pictures would be most helpful, and perhaps someone with more knowledge of cases and their serial numbers will step in to help.

[Kent]

Hi greenhorn8:

Welcome to the NAWCC American Pocket Watch Message Board!

To add to what tomrsey posted:

Dueber-Hampden’s story is told in “From Springfield To Moscow: The Complete Dueber-Hampden Story," (Revised and enlarged successor to the 1954 Supplement to the NAWCC Bulletin) James W. Gibbs, Philadelphia, PA, 1986 (this should be available to members on loan by mail from the NAWCC Library & Research Center (http://www.nawcc.org/Library/library.htm)). Briefly, John C. Dueber established a watch case company in Newport, KY in the late 1870's. In the mid-to-late 1880's he purchased a controlling interest in the Hampden Watch Co. of Springfield, MA. Brief descriptions and list prices of Hampden movements at this time may be seen online in a 530 Kb scan of an 1887 Catalog Supplement (http://static.flickr.com/27/43570061_f24bcaeb4e_b.jpg). In 1888-1889, both operations were moved to a dual, attached set of factory buildings in Canton, OH (http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y284/walt845/1889_Aug_Dueber_Factory_LR.jpg). The Dueber Watch Case Manufacturing Co. was a separate company from the Hampden Watch Co., although the ads used the Dueber-Hampden name and that name was (and still is) in common usage, and they were housed in adjacent buildings. Those two adjacent factory buildings may be seen in this Ad From 1900 (http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y284/walt845/1900_Lever_Set_LR.jpg). It stayed that way until about 1925 when they formally combined. The companies continued in business, producing both watches and cases until falling sales in the mid-1920's led to receivership in 1927. The manufacturing equipment, parts on hand and work in progress were sold to Russia. Operations ceased in 1930 when the machinery was shipped to Russia. It is believed that all factory records either went with the equipment, or were destroyed, and there are no surviving records from which to match serial numbers of watches against models and grades. Nevertheless, Messrs. J. Hernick and R. Arnold, by collecting descriptions of Dueber-Hampden watches, with serial numbers, over a decade or more, were able to partially reconstruct the serial number vs. grade/description list. This was published as “The Hampden Watch Co.,” NAWCC Special Order Supplement #1, J. Hernick and R. Arnold, NAWCC, Columbia, PA, 1997 (also available to members on loan by mail from the NAWCC Library & Research Center (http://www.nawcc.org/Library/library.htm)).

Basic information about a Dueber-Hampden watch may be obtained online using Henry Burgell's Interactive Hampden Serial Number Lookup Table (http://www.nawcc-ch149.com/db_resch/Hampden_1230.html). Since this is based upon a "recreated" serial number list (the factory records were lost or destroyed), there may be occasional errors. Oldwatch.com's Hampden Production Date Chart (http://www.oldwatch.com/hampdendate.html), or the PocketWatchSite's Hampden Date Table (http://www.pocketwatchsite.com/hampdenserials.html), are also online means for determining the very approximate production date of Hampden pocket watches. Use the serial number on the movement (the “works”), not the serial number on the case. In general, we think of serial number vs. date lists - created by using the average number of watches produced over a period of years - to only be accurate within a year or two at best, and recognize that there are numerous exceptions wherein which the dates may be off as much as 3 years or more. This is not just for Hampden, but for other watch manufacturers as well.

Only a small percentage of American watches (or Swiss watches for the North American market) were cased at the factories prior to the mid-1920's (even then, uncased movements were furnished to the trade at least until the 1960's). Most watch companies just made movements (the "works") in industry standard sizes. The case companies made cases in those same sizes. The practice at that time was to go to a jeweler, select the quality of the movement and then pick out the desired style and quality of case. The jeweler would then fit the movement to the case in a matter of moments.

Or, watches were sold by mail-order. Large outfits such as Sears, Roebuck & Co., Montgomery Ward, or T. Eaton (in Canada), would offer the movements in a variety of cases of different design and quality in their catalogs. Smaller mail-order retailers would case the watches, typically in a 20-year gold filled case and offer it only that way, with the buyer not having a choice of cases.

Note: The grade of a case is the quality of the materials and work that went into it. Each case grade was offered in many different engraved designs.

A short history of American watch cases, within the online article "Decorative Aspects of American Horology," by Philip Poniz, can be viewed on The Antiquorum Magazine (http://www.antiquorum.com/vox/june_2002/poniz/poniz.htm) website.

If you can tell us about (or post a picture of) the trade marks or names stamped into the inside back of the case, we may be able to tell you a little about the case material and its manufacturer.

The Illinois Watch Case Co., of Elgin, Illinois, (formerly the Elgin Giant Watch Case Co.) carefully named their cases "Elgin" to give the impression that the watch case company was associated with the well-known Elgin National Watch Co. This 1895 Elgin Watch Case Ad (http://photos11.flickr.com/16931454_70ba7c9b7c_o.jpg) serves as an example. There was no association and the watch company eventually brought suit against the case company to prevent them from using the "Elgin" name. This was Decided in the Favor of the Watch Company in the Lower Courts in 1898 (http://static.flickr.com/10/13721240_d201f5dccd_o.jpg), but it was overturned in the Supreme Court. The citation for that case is Elgin Nat. Watch Co. v. Illinois Watch Case Co., 179 U.S. 665 (1901), as reported by John F. in a post on July 11, 2002. There may also be some confusion as to whether there was an association between the Illinois Watch Case Co. and the Illinois Watch Co. There wasn't. Despite the questionable use of the name "Elgin," the Illinois Watch Case Co. was a reputable company and it continued to make cases at least as late as the 1940's. Some of its later cases are labeled "Elgin Giant Watch Case Co."

Please let us know if you have more questions,

[greenhorn8]

Wow great information and very interesting. Attached are 2 photos; one of the inside of the case and the other of the outside backing. Hope these come thru as the digital camera I have had a challenging time taking legible, up close, photos. Thanks.

[Kent]

greenhorn8:

Your case is a gold-filled case. A large proportion of movements are housed in gold-filled cases. These cases are made of a sheet of inexpensive, "composition" metal (brass), sandwiched between two thinner sheets of gold by applying heat and pressure. This produces a much heavier layer of gold than electro-plating. One process of doing this is defined by the term, "rolled gold-plate" (which is generally considered to use a thinner gold sheet). The gold sheet that becomes the inside of the case is thinner than the gold sheet that becomes the outside of the case. Frequently, the purity of the gold used in the sheets, expressed in karats, is stamped inside the back of the case. Some case companies indicated the thickness of the outer layer of gold by using different trademarks for different thicknesses.

Before Federal Regulations Outlawed the Practice (http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y284/walt845/1924_Jan_1_Cease_Guarantee_Stamp.jpg), some case companies indicated the thickness of the outer layer by the number of years for which the case was warranted. Not all case companies were forthright about marking the cases or honoring the warranty (which is what gave rise to the federal regulations). These were the makers of the cut-rate cases, bearing names few of us recognize, the surviving examples of which are almost always badly worn. Nevertheless, like any product that carries a guarantee today, case guarantees from the reputable companies were in effect, within their specified time, as long as those companies stayed in business. Crescent (http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2006-9/1217458/1892_May_25_Crescent_Guarantee_LR.jpg), Philadelphia (http://static.flickr.com/21/31451680_9e0334ef4f_o.jpg), Fahys (http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2006-9/1217458/1901_Feb_20_Fahys_LR.jpg), Illinios (http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2006-9/1217458/1900_May_9_IWCCo_Guarantee_LR.jpg), and quite a few others, were companies who would replace the cases if the gold wore through to the brass within the guarantee period. The watch companies, such as Hamilton, Keystone-Howard, Illinois, Elgin and others also probably stood behind their cases, to not do so would seem to have been unthinkable to them.

[greenhorn8]

Hi Kent - I'd like to take this watch in to have it repaired as well as evaluated. I live in Houston, TX. Is there a resource where I can find a reputable watch shop that would understand what I have? Thanks for all the great information.

[Jon Hanson]

You might reconsider having any work done on this watch, as it would NOT BE COST EFFECTIVE.

[Kent]

greenhorn8:

Jon has made a very valid point!

Unless this is a family heirloom, or you have a special attachment to this particular watch, it is not worth having it serviced. For what it would cost to have any quality work done on it, you could probably get a better grade watch in better condition.