Your newest acquisition. Volume 7

[Sooth]

Chris, that Fusee drop dial clock is a really nice find. I especially like that it has ripple molding along the waist.

I believe that your hour hand is not original, since it doesn't match the "chunky" style minute hand (or vice versa).

You might be able to find a nice old pendulum for it of you look, but there are some decent reproduction fusee pendulums available.

***

Steve, that is a gorgeous piece, and I'm sure that a good 80% of us would love to own one like it. The mahogany on it is especially gorgeous, but I'm not sure that the finish on it is original, it looks like it's been redone. Probably at the same time that the tablet was restored. But whoever did it, did a nice job.

This thread has been split into multiple Volumes. For your convenience, the following LINKS have been added to each thread.

http://mb.nawcc.org/showthread.php?t=44290 Your newest aquisition. Volume 1
http://mb.nawcc.org/showthread.php?t=44322 Your newest aquisition. Volume 2
http://mb.nawcc.org/showthread.php?t=44320 Your newest aquisition. Volume 3
http://mb.nawcc.org/showthread.php?t=44299 Your newest aquisition. Volume 4
http://mb.nawcc.org/showthread.php?t=44318 Your newest aquisition. Volume 5
http://mb.nawcc.org/showthread.php?t=44319 Your newest aquisition. Volume 6
http://mb.nawcc.org/showthread.php?t=44292 Your newest aquisition. Volume 7

Sam Kirk

[time327]

Thanks all,
Sooth I did put a little beeswax polish on the case to put back in some moisture, which gave it a sheen. Tried to look everywhere to see if it has been re finished, if so I can't really tell.
Love seeing everyones clocks,
Steve

[TEACLOCKS]

My newest from a flea market.
I see that it might be a morbier,
But I cant find the G around IROD ?? In the Trade Mark Book.
Any help ?

[harold bain]

Teaclocks, that clock looks a lot like a Vedette that I worked on a few months ago. I would say, definately French.

[Steven Thornberry]

Girod is French, but I have little information about them.

[Sooth]

Hey everyone. I finally got off my lazy bum and updated my website. There are 9 new clocks up on it (no sound clips or info pages yet), and I have also revised and updated the "coming soon" page.

[TEACLOCKS]

It does Have Morbier.
Is there a French Trademark Book ????

[inbeat]

I've had this for a month or so along with some other stuff I have in the garage. It has been too hot to work on anything in the garage so the clocks are just sitting or hanging. I brought it inside and dusted it off two days ago, put the bob on it and off it went. Although it is running and keeping decent time, I need to at least oil the movement. Not a bad Herschedes double chime (Westminster or Cantebury) with an inlay looking front. Mahogany. Has a nice sound to it. Not my kind of clock or a keeper but altogether not a bad clock.

[Robert L]

It's nice to click on the last page of this thread and it is the last page and not a red band : )

[inbeat]

Robert,
I finally figured out why that was happening before....I had blocked a particular poster and by not showing his posts, it left a blank on the last page...depending on how many posts he had in that particular thread....when I unblocked, it did not occur....

[haneyk]

Here's my latest, a sweet little Chauncey Jerome cottage clock, all original and running well! Does anyone know an approximate date for this clock? Is it one of Jerome's first 30-hour brass movements from the late 1830's?

Kevin

[tomrsey]

Kevin, from what I can figure out, Jerome opened the case shop in New Haven in ~1842. The movements were still made in Bristol. That factory burned and everything was moved to New Haven in 1845. So the "New Haven" on the glass, I'm thinking, would put it after 1842 or even 1845.

If your clock has a label, it would tell us more. The location and exact name on the label helps to date it.

[Veritas]

Nice clock. I have a Ogee made from the same company. Too often labels get removed or damaged.Cottage clocks make a interesting collection.

[haneyk]

Tom, the clock doesn't have a label, just the name on the front glass and the below stamp on the front of the movement.

Kevin

[tomrsey]

With New Haven stamped on the movement, I would seem to be post 1845. Very nice cottage. I have looked through several books and Bulletins and cannot find a reference to the movement in yours.

Very nice cottage!!

[clockpoor]

This Seth Thomas Office Calendar No 4 is a nice example and proof that every once in a while you can score big on eBay. I acquired this clock on eBay about a week ago and it is as close to "Mint" as any clock I own. With the exception of a tiny 1/8" chip in the veneer on the very bottom edge, barely visible in this photo, this clock is really nice. Nice original labels, nice dials, original fasteners and really clean.

CP

[Bob W.]

Clockpoor, that's a fine example....very nice.

BOB

[Spaceman Spiff]

Hi, everyone.

This New Haven grandfather clock had been on Craig's List in my local (Tampa Bay) area for a couple of weeks. When the lady first posted it (with "Moving! Must sell this weekend!" in the initial description) I called her up and made her an offer (which was embarrassingly low, but I had just bought another grandfather clock a day or so before which was still sitting in my garage waiting for space in my house, so my low offer was sort of a half-a$$ed attempt of making sure I wouldn't get her clock since I had no business buying another one if I still had a "homeless" one in the garage!)

She had told me that it had been in her family for at least 75 years and had belonged to her grandfather, but no one in her family wanted it (!!) and she was tired of having to move it each time she moved.

Anyway, a week or so went by, I finally managed to squeeze the one from the garage into my house, and I noticed the lady had re-posted her Craig's List ad. I sent her an email and asked if anyone had bought it yet, and raised my offer a little (still feeling guilty for having given her such a low offer before). She replied and said she still had the clock and gave me a counter offer (which was quite fair, but I still had no idea where I would put the thing!)

So, I let another week go by. Meanwhile, I had been deciding whether I was willing to part with an early 1970's Mauthe "grandmother" clock here, which would open a spot for the New Haven. So, today I started feeling another spell of Clock Fever coming on and called the lady again to ask if she still had the clock and whether I could come look at it. She said it was lucky I called because they were almost finished moving and had just wrapped the clock and were getting ready to load it into a truck to be taken somewhere else.

I headed up to her house and was immediately surprised at how large the clock was! The Craig's List photos had been very poor and had not done it justice. I was just astonished that no one in her family wanted it. Anyway, I saw that it had a few problems but nothing insurmountable, and offered her a "half-way" amount between her and my last offers. She split the difference between that and her previous offer and it was mine!

One of her sons (adult) was there and helped with taking it apart, and he was completely nonchalant & friendly & had no interest in the clock whatsoever, even though it had been his great-grandfather's. Completely inconceivable to me!! (The lady even showed me marks on the pendulum where she said her father had shot it with a BB-gun when he was young!)

The case will be heading to a master woodworker/craftsman that I know and I'm sure he'll have it repaired to perfection. And I'll go to a local glass company to have a new glass made for the upper (face) door.

**I am curious about one thing in particular, however: It seems a little bizarre to me that the clock would have the ability to be either key-wound through the face OR to have the weights pulled up by the chains (which is how the lady said they'd always wound it). I spoke with a clock-repairman-friend of mine this evening and he said he recalls seeing two others like it (also with ladder-chains) during his repair career. Is anyone here familiar with movements like this? (I think the wooden acorns for the dead-ends of the chains are really cool!)

Also, if anyone has another other info about the clock or when it was made (does the "C" on the movement plate help date it?), I would greatly appreciate it. Thanks!

John

[harold bain]

Nice clock, John. It looks to me like the Sheffield model on page 190 of Tran's New Haven book. It shows a dial with wind arbors, and acorns on the weight chains. It dates from 1911, Height, 90 1/2 inches, width, 21 3/4 inches, dial, etched metal, 12 inches, movement, 8 day weight, half hour strike, cathedral gong, price, $75.50.
It's a good one to make room for:D

[Spaceman Spiff]

Thanks, Harold!

I appreciate the info.

John

[Bob W.]

Recently bought this ST#3 "Ball." Fine original finish oak case.

BOB

[tomrsey]

That will be a fabulous piece when you get it all restored. Great find! Can't believe no one in the family wanted it. Lots of style to that one. Acorns on the ends of the chains are a nice touch.

[Robert L]

Recently bought this ST#3 "Ball." Fine original finish oak case.

BOB

I've always liked #3's ...but have never owned one ?

A friend has a Ball #3 in light oak that hung in a bakery for years...and when you open the door it still smells like a bakery inside.

[Clockortwo]

Bob W

Nice three. One is on my short list.

Clockortwo

[Clockortwo]

Clockpoor

Very nice 4 calendar. I find it interesting that every 4 I have seen had no makers mark or printing on the dials. My 6 and 7 calendars both have markings.

Clockortwo

[inbeat]

Clockpoor

Very nice 4 calendar. I find it interesting that every 4 I have seen had no makers mark or printing on the dials. My 6 and 7 calendars both have markings.

Clockortwo

I always thought that a clean top dial and bottom dial with all of the patent dates on it as well as the various script would come on one with the Mix Bros. calendar.
If not, then at least the very earliest ones.

[Clockortwo]

JJ

Ly's 3rd edition page 93 shows printing on the lower dial in the 1863 catalogue version. Not as yours is printed. The 1874 cataloguue version is blank as is the actual photo pictured. So, yours is a first for me.

Thanks JJ

Clockortwo

[inbeat]

Bruce,
That one from 1863 was a line drawing.
Look at Tran's Calendar clock book, page 249, #604.
Also, check out the old guide to calendar clocks called
"Survey Of American Clocks, Calendar Clocks" by the Millers.
Prior to Tran, this was all we had. Their book shows on page 11, #16, a picture of the lower dial with "Patent dates found on Seth Thomas dials with Mix Brother's calendar mechanism."
Also, on page 13 of that book, there is an actual clock with the identical bottom dial as on mine. I believe that same is on my Peanut.

JJ

[inbeat]

Recently bought this ST#3 "Ball." Fine original finish oak case.

BOB

Bob,
Nice addition...I had it marked but forgot about it until it was gone.

JJ

[Clockortwo]

[QUOTE=inbeat;312990]Bruce,
That one from 1863 was a line drawing.


JJ
Yes JJ it is a line drawing and what I wrote was it was from a catalogue -- there were not photos in catalogues back then. But, if you look the Mix information is not included, just the word " Calendar". So my point was, I had never seen one like your 4 , until now, or the Ly Catalogue version.
Clockortwo

[clockpoor]

Clockpoor

Very nice 4 calendar. I find it interesting that every 4 I have seen had no makers mark or printing on the dials. My 6 and 7 calendars both have markings.

Clockortwo

Actually this clock does having printing on the calendar dial, but it is almost faded out. States "Patented Feb 15, 1876" Because it is so faded I feel that the original dials have had their numerals enhanced at some point.

AND, speaking of printing on dials. Check out the printing on this original Office Calendar NO 1 calendar dial that is known to be original to the clock. Note how off-center it is.

CP

[clockpoor]

?.......................Don't know what happened to the photo I planned to post above, must have done something wrong......anyway here is the photo I intended to post with the above.

Cp

PS I know what happened, I forgot to do the upload thing

[inbeat]

[QUOTE=inbeat;312990]Bruce,
That one from 1863 was a line drawing.


JJ
Yes JJ it is a line drawing and what I wrote was it was from a catalogue -- there were not photos in catalogues back then. But, if you look the Mix information is not included, just the word " Calendar". So my point was, I had never seen one like your 4 , until now, or the Ly Catalogue version.
Clockortwo

Bruce,
I know what you were saying...I guess what I meant, (and sometimes what I say is not what I mean), is that sometimes the line drawings or catalogue pictures that are drawings are not exactly as the original clocks were. The ones like the one I posted is in the Miller Calendar book as well as the Seth Calendar book as real pictures. I would guess all are Mix calendars....

CP....I assume that your #4 (which is quite nice) is not a Mix Brothers, but rather an Andrews calendar?

[clockpoor]

[QUOTE=Clockortwo;313018]


CP....I assume that your #4 (which is quite nice) is not a Mix Brothers, but rather an Andrews calendar?

You are correct, my No 4 is an Andrews.

CP

[Paul H]

Well I am excited!!
It has been a long time dream to get a Birge + Fuller Wagon Spring double steeple and the other night that came to fruition. How often do you even see one of these come along that is still waiting restoration?

I'll consider it an honor to bring this back into good condition.

Paul H
www.tictockdoc.piczo.com

[Robert L]

Nice one , Paul
The glasses look great. Post a pic when it's finished.

[Burkhard Rasch]

Hi Friends!
Yesterday was my luky day of this Year!Found this 3 train Vedette with "Westminster"and"Ave Maria",box from the 20ies or early 30ies,massive oak,beautyfully carved,bevelled glass in lead strips,mvmt of verry good quality(as usual with Vedette),deadbeat esc. adjustable pallets,key and instructions for 20€. Case needs refinishing,mvmt.a good clean and oil and a new SS.I couldn´t let that go allthough I have a "simple" Vedette with Westminster chime only.
Burkhard

[Scottie-TX]

I can only IMAGINE how awesome that sounds with those large, looong rods.
CONGRATS!

[chimeclockfan]

Hi Friends!
Yesterday was my luky day of this Year!Found this 3 train Vedette with "Westminster"and"Ave Maria",box from the 20ies or early 30ies,massive oak,beautyfully carved,bevelled glass in lead strips,mvmt of verry good quality(as usual with Vedette),deadbeat esc. adjustable pallets,key and instructions for 20€. Case needs refinishing,mvmt.a good clean and oil and a new SS.I couldn´t let that go allthough I have a "simple" Vedette with Westminster chime only.
Burkhard


Congratulations! Those clocks have a very good tone.

Scottie, if you think those chime bars look long, look inside a Kienzle Longcase. ;)

[R. Croswell]

I always thought that a clean top dial and bottom dial with all of the patent dates on it as well as the various script would come on one with the Mix Bros. calendar.
If not, then at least the very earliest ones.

Well, to add to the confusion, here's my No.4. Movement with stop work, is signed Seth Thomas, Plymouth Conn. I have also been told that this may be the #41 movement and that this version has the Mix Bros. calendar works, and is the earliest version of the No.4, possibly as early as 1865. The dial photo shows the calendar dial "as received" and there is no sign of any marking other than the numbers. The nice lady at The Dial House told me that this was an indication that it was the earliest version. I know absolutely nothing about the variations in the No.4s, but I find this discussion very interisting.

Bob C.

[Veritas]

Nice finds guys Burkhard that was a very good deal on that clock, i like the look of those and i bet they sound sweet.Post some pics of your finished clock.
Paul that is a rare find for sure, looks in awesome shape as well.:)
I bought this clock yesterday at our chapter meeting, cleaned it up and its running well.

[Burkhard Rasch]

Hi Friends!
Yes,these Vedettes have a beautyfull soud.I´m quiet curious what "Ave Maria"sounds like,never heard of.Besides Westminster I know Whitington and .......one else I´ve forgotten,but not "AM".I know now why they sold that clock that cheap:They thought the mainspring of timetrain was broken because the clock didn´t wind,but it was simply unhooked from the winding arbor,not difficult to fix with these patent-barrels.I started with the box,it´s good massive oak,allthough a bit crudly made,german boxes of that age are manufactured more delicatly.I´ll show You later.
Hi Kevin,who´s the maker of that nice alarm,cannot read the logo :)
Burkhard

[Veritas]

Hi Burkhard it is made by Seth Thomas.

[chimeclockfan]

There's a video somewhere of a similar Vedette clock playing "Ave Maria". It's the Lourdes varient. It sounds very good. They seem to be a bit more uncommon than Westminster only chimers. The really rare ones play Frere Jacques every 15 minutes!

[eclecticbeat]

It's probably one of the first 2

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DVMESQxKo-s (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DVMESQxKo-s)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LL5VlLKND8M (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LL5VlLKND8M)


http://www.champsclock.com/downloads.htm (http://www.champsclock.com/downloads.htm) (about half way down the page)

[chimeclockfan]

First two. ;)

Probably will sound more like first one. That guy used to come to the NAWCC.

[SrWilson]

Be the version of ave maria my ODO wall clock plays! and 4 chime mantle clock yer.


My latest clock I got in was a triple chime mantle clock not sure who made it poss urgos does whitt westm and winchester chimes.

[clockdude]

Nice finds guys Burkhard that was a very good deal on that clock, i like the look of those and i bet they sound sweet.Post some pics of your finished clock.
Paul that is a rare find for sure, looks in awesome shape as well.:)
I bought this clock yesterday at our chapter meeting, cleaned it up and its running well.

You know, Kevin West, that carriage clock you have there looks almost like "The Joker" which is a carriage clock with a musical alarm. I for one might be wrong on it, but I think I'm right. Correct me if I'm wrong!

[Veritas]

Hi Clockdude, I believe Steven T said this in a posting in the clocks forum.
I know very little about these clocks.
It appealed to me and the price was good.
And the better half liked it as well, so that is a plus.:)
It cleaned up well and runs well. Clock is all intact and in good cosmetic condition.

[Spaceman Spiff]

Picked up this rough-looking Gilbert Medea in a antique store's warehouse in Auburn, Maine on Monday.

I'm such a sucker for broken & neglected clocks! I can't bear the thought of them languishing away somewhere in a barn or junk store, with no one to look after them or to help them try to attain their former glory! (Plus, I love the bargain prices of buying broken clocks at a much cheaper rate! :wink: )

I hope to have this one repaired and looking fit again in the not-too-distant future.

Check out what the previous owner came up with for a pendulum!! ??? Apparently it wasn't quite heavy enough at first, so they added putty to the back of it. And I guess the reflector was meant to keep anyone from driving their car into the clock on a dark night! (Maybe that's how it got damaged in the first place? LOL).

John

[harold bain]

Neat homemade pendulum:o, John. I'm sure you will make a great looking clock out of that:thumb:

[tomrsey]

Wow! That's one unique pendulum bob! Be sure to post some "after" pictures.

[Burkhard Rasch]

Thank You Eclecticbeat for providing the links!(I couldn´t do that,I´m too stupid with computers!)Judging from the visual sequence of the hammers beating mine could be No.2.I´ll see (and post)when the mvmt.is reinstalled again.What a good quality the mvmt.is!!Adjustable excentrics to all 3 trains,all levers of chime/strikemechanism polished.I found a `42 on the backplate,year of manufacture??Where was the firm located in France?Do they still exist?Can any info be drawn from the serial-no.?
Burkhard

[cazboy]

I got all three of these (a Sessions, a Seth Thomas and an Ingraham) for $50.00 cash at the local flea market. The guy said he was selling them for his uncle who was moving.
Sessions on the left, Ingraham in the middle, ST on the right.

I don't have any of the books to ID them; anybody know what the models are called?

[harold bain]

Doug, the Seth Thomas is a Prospect # 11, circa 1913.
The Ingraham is the Huron shelf clock with 8 day movement, manufactured for a short period, 1878-80.
I can't find your Sessions. Very good deal for you:thumb:

[Jeremy Woodoff]

The Huron is scarce. I didn't buy one many years ago for a couple hundred dollars and regretted it later.

[DBPhelps]

The "Huron" is a desirable addition to anyone that collects Ingrahams. You see them occasionally but have a pretty good price tag on them. Great finds!

[cazboy]

The "Huron" is a desirable addition to anyone that collects Ingrahams. You see them occasionally but have a pretty good price tag on them. Great finds!

Thanks guys! This is one of those finds that only happen for me once in a GREAT while. At fifty bucks for all three clocks, I couldn't afford to NOT buy them. Some restoration is in my near future.

The Ingraham Huron seems to be in first-glance good shape but there's some damage to the case at the rear-top but otherwise good condition. I haven't opened it up to inspect the movement; I'll take a look later today. Here's some pics:

[cazboy]

Here's the Seth Thomas:

[cazboy]

And the Sessions. Can anyone clue me in as to what this one's called, and its approximate age?

[Steven Thornberry]

The Sessions looks similar to the Ideal, ca. 1910. Tran Duy Ly shows it for that year, but it could also have been made a few years on either side. He lists it as 10.5" high and 10" wide. Tran's catalogue ahows no engravings and side "handles." The style of the base, however, appears to be the same.

[harold bain]

Doug, you might want to replace that replacement dial paper on your Huron. Find out first what an original might have looked like.

[Steven Thornberry]

I think the original Huron dial looked pretty much like what is there, sans the Swigart logo. The replacement seems to have been there for a good while. If he finds the Huron too much trouble, I would be happy to take it off his hands for a nominal sum!:rolleyes:

[Burkhard Rasch]

Hi Dough and all!
Allthough I can´t complain with my "find of the year"I admit I´m looking for someone who sells three beautyfull clocks for fifty bucks to me,too!Great clocks,the Ingraham seems to have had a "hot time"in the past!
My Vedette is ready:Case was bleached on one side,re-stained with a solvent-stain for medium brown oak and refinished not with shellac because the grain of the wood is verry deep and the carving quiet rough,so IMHO it will not realy benefit from shellac.Instead I used a nitro silk-glance laquer in 3 layers.Mvmt installed and off it went,and yea,the sound is deep and sonor.The melody is like the first example of Eclecticbeat (besides "usual" Westminster)The pic of the bare case taken in daylight gives the color quiet well,with flash it seems darker than realy is.
Burkhard

[harold bain]

Great job, Burkhard. I'm guessing that it wouldn't have had shellac originally. Nice clock:thumb:

[cazboy]

The Sessions looks similar to the Ideal, ca. 1910. Tran Duy Ly shows it for that year, but it could also have been made a few years on either side. He lists it as 10.5" high and 10" wide. Tran's catalogue ahows no engravings and side "handles." The style of the base, however, appears to be the same.

Thanks Steven. Mine is 10.5" high and 8.5" wide, measured from the "tall/flat sidewall" on the left to the "tall/flat sidewall" on the right. Sorry for lack of proper terminology.

[cazboy]

Doug, you might want to replace that replacement dial paper on your Huron. Find out first what an original might have looked like.

Thanks Harold. Yes, the dial doesn't look even remotely original. Printing has a weird "spongy" mottled look to it.

[cazboy]

Hi Dough and all!
Allthough I can´t complain with my "find of the year"I admit I´m looking for someone who sells three beautyfull clocks for fifty bucks to me,too!Great clocks,the Ingraham seems to have had a "hot time"in the past!
My Vedette is ready:Case was bleached on one side,re-stained with a solvent-stain for medium brown oak and refinished not with shellac because the grain of the wood is verry deep and the carving quiet rough,so IMHO it will not realy benefit from shellac.Instead I used a nitro silk-glance laquer in 3 layers.Mvmt installed and off it went,and yea,the sound is deep and sonor.The melody is like the first example of Eclecticbeat (besides "usual" Westminster)The pic of the bare case taken in daylight gives the color quiet well,with flash it seems darker than realy is.
Burkhard

Wow Burkhard, VERY nice looking clock and great restoration work. I admire your woodworking skills.

[mlcampbell]

Pics coming. This was one of those ideas that seemed good at the estate sale, but then I got it home and it may be the most annoying clock in my collection.

Seth Thomas "Ship's clock", bottom bell, brass. No idea what the year is, it appears to be mounted on a wooden backing w/ veneer. The 'tablet' or paper on the back is basically intact with a handwritten serial number, and it chimes the "bells of the watch."

My daughters have already told me "dad, it has GOT to go, and I just bought it yesterday.

Any thoughts on dating this thing will be appreciated, and do I polish the brass or leave that old patina on there?

[clockpoor]

Pics coming. This was one of those ideas that seemed good at the estate sale, but then I got it home and it may be the most annoying clock in my collection.

Seth Thomas "Ship's clock", bottom bell, brass. No idea what the year is, it appears to be mounted on a wooden backing w/ veneer. The 'tablet' or paper on the back is basically intact with a handwritten serial number, and it chimes the "bells of the watch."

My daughters have already told me "dad, it has GOT to go, and I just bought it yesterday.

Any thoughts on dating this thing will be appreciated, and do I polish the brass or leave that old patina on there?

Seth Thomas produced various models of the Ships Bell strike with the externally mounted bell. From your description, I would likely place your clock in the era of the 1884 model which features a seconds bit below the 12:00 postion on the dial and having Roman Numerals? This clock was produced with both hinged and removable bezel. Many are nickle plated. The later model, the Moniter, dates to the 1930's, but I do not believe the Monitor was offered with a wooden backing.

As to whether to polish it or leave it with it's natural "patina" is a personal choice. Personally I like to see my clocks polished as I think they should have been maintained over the years, but others will argue the opposite.

Here are examples of each that I own. The brass is a Monitor and the wood backing has been added. The other is an 1884 model in nickle with a removable bezel and original wood backing.

CP

[ChuckR]

Got this last week, will be a good winter project.

Chuck

[mlcampbell]

The one on the left is a dead ringer for mine, except mine's kind of a greenish gold and (ETA: It has Roman numerals)

Is there a way to date them from the serial number?

This thing runs, although I"m worried about the winding arbor having been worn nearly round. The key slipped on it today.

The bells seem out of whack, and they kinda 'thunk' against the bell housing, but I haven't started bending parts until I know a bit more about this beast.

Thanks for the valuable information.

[mlcampbell]

Also acquired this past weekend at an estate sale, a Seth Thomas ogee clock. (I love these clocks...never had one that just didn't immediately start up and run when I wound it)...

The clock was previously owned by an old professor who was apparently meticulous in his records. He even had a broken-off piece of laminate inside a zip-loc bag to put back on the clock later.

I was cleaning this clock up last night (just going over the case and the inside), and found a small piece of paper which contained the notation:

STOG (I got that part...), and "Erhardt, p. 53".

Anyone got any ideas on that reference?

Thanks in advance.

Les

[Steven Thornberry]

Ehrhardt is possibly one of the three volumes of Roy Ehrhardt's "Clock Identification and Price Guides," published in the 1970's and 1980's. I have volumes 2 and 3, but no STOG is listed on page 53 of either one; so, if I'm right, possibly volume 1, page 53. They are nice books to have, good supplements to Tran Duy Ly's volumes. I need to find vol. 1.

I should add that Ehrhardt also published in the mid-1980's a Price Guide to Antique Clocks, and this might also be what is meant. I am unfamiliar with that book.

[LaBounty]

Hey Steven T-

I probably shouldn't tell you this, especially since I imagine you are like the rest of us bitten with the clock bug, but Ehrhardt also produce a limited run "American Clock Book 4, Identification and Price Guide" as well as five "Foreign Clock" books in the same spiral bound format. The "need" list grows longer... :).

American Book 4 is the best as it covers early and upper-end American clocks.


Les,

Your "Ehrhardt, pg. 53" reference is indeed vol. 1 as Steven suggests. This page shows several Seth Thomas OG's.

Hope that helps!

[Steven Thornberry]

And I just got done hunting down a Book 1!! Now I have to look for Book 4 - may pass on the rest. Thanks for the info, David.

[LaBounty]

Sorry 'bout that :). My signed edition says "Book 15 of 50 Copies" so I'm not sure how many are out there. Anyway, here's what you are looking for...

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3033/2926567307_9c2d84313b.jpg

Regards,

[mlcampbell]

Les,

Your "Ehrhardt, pg. 53" reference is indeed vol. 1 as Steven suggests. This page shows several Seth Thomas OG's.

Hope that helps!

It does! Is there any way I can get a scan of that page to see which clock I've got here?

Thanks.

[LaBounty]

Hey Les-

I can send you the image via a private e-mail but can't post it here because of copyrights. We have gotten permission from Tran Duy Ly to use his material as long as he gets credit. As far as I know, that permission hasn't been granted with Ehrhardt's books.

So, e-mail me and I'll send you a scanned image (my contact information can be found at the link below) or I can send you a PM with the image.

Regards,

[Bob W.]

A Chelsea "Ball" Regulator. Not many of these were made.

BOB

[br3jlm]

Really have want a banjo for awhile and picked this one up

lINKY

http://thumb13.webshots.net/t/55/755/4/57/5/2098457050073437793skkpTL_th.jpg (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2098457050073437793skkpTL)

[Vernon]

Nice Gilbert banjo! I too would like one and indeed have my eye on a New Haven. Banjos have a style that is unique for sure...Vernon

[clocks4u]

Bob...Any chance that was the one that was on eBay as a "Buy it Now"? It seemed very straight and expensive too! :o

Chris

[Bob W.]

Chris, to my knowledge, it wasn't on eBay....at lease I didn't buy it there; it was a private transaction.

BOB

[itbme1987]

here is mine...bought it at todays chapter 13 meeting....this will also be posted in case repair since it needs some...other then that i think its nice looking

[harold bain]

Nice looking Ingraham, Ryan:thumb::thumb:

[Veritas]

Nice looking clock Ryan, looks to be in nice shape. Should be a keeper when you are finished with it.
This clock is a Gilbert school house clock. It was in the school house my dad was a student at as a youth. Oliver,s Corners in Quebec in the eastern townships. Clock is mostly all there. I have pendulum and hands. I do need a calendar hand and a complete bezel with glass to complete it. I overhauled the movement 4 years ago.It has been at my brother,s place and soon will be on my wall.
I think it is a pretty nice clock.

[itbme1987]

thank you for the compliments and i hope it does as well, your gilbert looks to be in pretty nice shape itself, and has a near story behind it, kind of funny how stuff like that works out

[Scottie-TX]

Wow! How KOOL is that. Man. I'd LOVE to have the one from the two room schoolhouse where my education began. Another I recall was a double sided - probably called an office clock perhaps - that hung in the aisle of a telephone central office in Detroit, above the cable testboard. When it was removed, I GUARANTEE - it never reached the floor! THAT clock went from it's mount to someone's eager, waiting hands.

[Veritas]

Hi Scottie in our school we only had that darn electric clock, i never wanted that one.
Where did you go to school Scottie, for grade school?
The smallest school i was in, had 2 classrooms and the library was in the hall way.

[Scottie-TX]

Not so picturesque at the time - 1946 - Southeastern Pennsylvania - a town of maybe 1000 pop. A two room schoolhouse - no library. Library was a shelf of books at the back of the rooms. A clock hung on the rear wall of each. Every Mon., the teacher would stand on a table or chair and wind it. Heated by a coal furnace and two ducts - one in each room. Facilities were outside. A hand operated pump for water; Outhouses about a hundred yards from the school. For "music" course, a travelling teacher would visit the school every Thur. and bring a crank phono - the highlight of music class. Grade school 1946!

[time2keep]

Here is my latest clock. Its a Sessions Regulator #2. I think it is all original except for the decal on the lower glass. Does anyone know if the top glass was originally painted black with gold around the face? Also do the hands look original? I have only seen the store regulators with the spade hands.

[Graphyfotoz]

My latest is a Sethy College Series "Cornell" in super condition with all the works just cleaned and lubed.

http://graphyfotoz.smugmug.com/photos/403181035_yz7av-M.jpg

[itbme1987]

the Sessions and Seth Thomas are both very beautiful clocks :thumb:

[Scottie-TX]

Dunno, T2: We both know how little I know about American clocks, but I will share that I believe most did have the black/gold surround on the top glass.
Does anyone know if the top glass was originally painted black with gold around the face? Also do the hands look original? I have only seen the store regulators with the spade hands.
As for the hands - I don't know about Sessions but my Ingraham dry goods has the same style pair; Spade hour hand and slender minute hand and I believe they are original to my clock.

[ClocksCollector]

Time2Keep, Nice clock. I have a similar clock and it has an upper glass that was painted black with a gold center ring. Your hands match mine except for the date hand. Mine is a replacement.

[ClocksCollector]

I bought this New Haven Branford time only wall clock on eBay a few weeks ago. About a year ago I cleaned a similar one and liked it so much I decided to look for one. The clock is all original. The impressive case is 27 inches tall and made of oak wood.

[malcolmt]

Hi Folks

This is my newest project, an e-bay purchase with which i am very pleased. If anyone can help with trademark and dating info it would be much apreciated.

22763

22765

22768

Kind regards

Malcolm

[Steven Thornberry]

Here is my latest clock. Its a Sessions Regulator #2. I think it is all original except for the decal on the lower glass. Does anyone know if the top glass was originally painted black with gold around the face? Also do the hands look original? I have only seen the store regulators with the spade hands.

The hands are ok, I think. Tran's Sessions book shows similar hands on the Reg. # 1 from about the same date. I would scrape off that decal; nor original. Tran shows the word "Regulator" on the front glass. As others have stated, the black around the dial is correct.

[malcolmt]

This is my lucky week. Not only did i aquire the lovely french slate clock above but also this georgeous "Napoleon Hat, Westminster/Whittington chime) Clock. You would not believe how happy i am.
22769 22772

22773 22776

It was advertised as not working since being moved by the decorators. When i unpacked it and set it in beat it works like a charm. It does need a good clean and service but thats about it. It has a huge chime and sounds absolutely wonderful. A real E-Bay bargain, They are still there to be had, I had no competition in bidding !!!!!
Perhaps i should do the lottery this week ?
Kind regards

Malcolm

[R. Croswell]

Great find! It's definately a buyers market on eBay right now. Last clock I sold went for nothing. People are just just holding on to money right now.

[malcolmt]

Hi R
I have to say i have been extremely lucky with e-bay recently. thanks for your apreciation.

Kind regards

Malcolm

[Steven Thornberry]

A lot of buyers seem to be holding on to their money for top-end clocks, which really leaves a lot of fine "ordinary" clocks to be had for others. Some of the "ordinaries" are really quite nice.

[Steven Thornberry]

In a recent post on the Stolen Horological Items thread, I mention, i.a., a Kroeber Newton that was lifted from an antique store in Frederick, MD. That clock was recovered by the owner and promptly bought - by me for what I thought to be a fair price (below Tran's valuation, at any rate). The real bad part about this theft is that it was one of several pulled off by thieves looking for money to buy drugs and the fence was the owner of a well-known antique mall in Hagerstown. The potential consequences for that mall are unpleasant (would you be buying stolen goods?) and could have repercussions for a neighboring mall. They had relied on each other to attarct mutual customers. But anyway, the clock is below. I hope the pictures came out half-way good. The clock itself is an ordinary walnut, but the pendulum is Kroebers Pendulum pat'd in 1881 (ref, Tran's Kroeber, p. 564).

[Paul Arsenault]

This is one of my recent finds. Before and after pictures. I wonder how someone would paint a clock like this green. Wonderful mahagony and burl maple under all that paint. The Dial House did a great job for me on this one.

[Steven Thornberry]

Paul: A nice Ingraham Calais from the 1930's. Great restoration from a terrible paint job! I have one and have found it to be a very reliable timekeeper.

This was my week for purchases. I also picked a small New Haven OG on E-bay that really appealed to me. The pix are from the ebay auction, saving me the trouble of repeating the process.

[Paul Arsenault]

Steven: That is a beauty. Looks like it is in good shape. Paul

[Steven Thornberry]

Thanks, Paul. It is is really nice shape and running like a top (hope I didn't speak too soon!). The last purchase for the week is a NH Champion. I liked the price ($340.00); though it was not a rock bottom price, I thought it a good deal for the clock. Apparently, Ansonia also used this case (the Monarch), as did Waterbury (the China). The pendulum on this one seems to be an Ansonia pendulum (though the movement is definitely a NH), and note how it is raised up with two additional rating nuts and a hex nut. Without this support group, the clock loses time. Gotta find the right pendulum or at least a rod that allows the one rating nut to raise the ball sufficiently. I can't tell if the glass decal is original or a replacement. It fits with other NH motifs, but I couldn't find it in Tran anywhere, unless I missed it. If a replacement, it is done awfully well, and the glass is definitely old - you can even see the old putty in place.

[Paul Arsenault]

Thanks, Paul. It is is really nice shape and running like a top (hope I didn't speak too soon!). The last purchase for the week is a NH Champion. I liked the price ($340.00); though it was not a rock bottom price, I thought it a good deal for the clock. Apparently, Ansonia also used this case (the Monarch), as did Waterbury (the China). The pendulum on this one seems to be an Ansonia pendulum (though the movement is definitely a NH), and note how it is raised up with two additional rating nuts and a hex nut. Without this support group, the clock loses time. Gotta find the right pendulum or at least a rod that allows the one rating nut to raise the ball sufficiently. I can't tell if the glass decal is original or a replacement. It fits with other NH motifs, but I couldn't find it in Tran anywhere, unless I missed it. If a replacement, it is done awfully well, and the glass is definitely old - you can even see the old putty in place.


Steven: How would it be if you were to trim the pendulum rod and run a die up a little further on it? This would allow for a sinlgle nut to be used. If you decide you want to do this and need any help let me know. I have no idea where Germantown is but I am in Glen Burnie and have some metal working equipment. Paul

[ClockJim]

Not received as yet... but it is on it's way.
http://mb.nawcc.org/picture.php?albumid=12&pictureid=62

I'm a sucker for the Seth Thomas City Series. This one is the "Paris" model.

[Jeremy Woodoff]

Steven,

I love the little OG. Is that the Rock of Gibralter on the glass? I don't remember seeing one of those before.

[Steven Thornberry]

Paul: Thanks for the offer of the equipment. I may try to scout around first before cutting up the rod. I know a guy who may have the proper pendulum or a shorter rod. He stock piles these things and is always to effect a trade.

Jeremy: I don't really know whether the scene is supposed to depict an actual place. It may, but I can't place it. There are a couple of guys standing in front of the "rock" on the right. One of them has what appears to be a musket.

[Spaceman Spiff]

This is one of my recent finds. Before and after pictures. I wonder how someone would paint a clock like this green. Wonderful mahagony and burl maple under all that paint. The Dial House did a great job for me on this one.

Very, very nice restoration job, Paul!
John

[Spaceman Spiff]

Picked up this Detex watchman's clock yesterday morning at a local flea market for $30, including the key station. (I already have a Lathem watchman's clock in excellent shape, so it's not like I needed another one, but I'm finding it very hard to resist clocks lately :|, especially good deals in good shape!)

Anyway, upon looking at it after I got home, I don't think this key station (or, rather, this key) necessarily goes with this particular clock model. :confused: The key does not seem to function in the large square hole at all...(which is where I'm assuming the clock was meant to receive its station-punch?) But I'm not sure if whether there might be a piece/mechanism missing from the square?

Also, another thing I didn't realize until I got home (duh!) is that there's no key to open the clock itself (to get to either the winding mechanism or the timesheet). :bang: So, I have to see if a locksmith friend can assist....

Or does anyone know of where/how to get keys for these?

Thanks,
John

[Spaceman Spiff]

And I picked up this 3-piece (French?) marble set this morning at the Webster Flea Market (largest in Florida) for $125. I'm sure the movement will need cleaning, but otherwise it seems to be in good shape. (Now I just have to figure out where the heck to put it!) (or which other clock gets demoted to make room for it!) :rolleyes:

Does anyone recognize the manufacturer's emblem? I can't quite make it out. Part of it looks like D'HONNEL, but I think it's meant to be D'HONNEUR which means "of honor."

And any ideas about when it was manufactured? (It has a serial number 3457, if we can figure out who made it....) (I'm assuming the 3 7 under the emblem may perhaps refer to the pendulum length in "ponce(s)" and "ligne" as Eckmill pointed out with a previous French clock I posted...?)

Thanks in advance,
John

[harold bain]

John, the style of the case and dial suggests a 1930's vintage.

[Hayson]

Hi John. I may be misreading it but I think it is Japy Frere et C'ie / Grande medaille d'honneur. If I'm right I think this makes it sometime between 1855 and 1873. A pouce is a paris inch of ca. 27.1mm. A ligne is a twelfth of this. (Roughly 97mm) :)

[inbeat]

From the dial and case styles, it is not that old....Harold's dates seem much more reasonable.

[Spaceman Spiff]

John, the style of the case and dial suggests a 1930's vintage.

Hi, Harold.
It's my fault for posting two clocks in this thread right after each other, but which one does the quote above refer to? The Detex watchman's clock or the marble 3-piece clock?
Thanks,
John

[harold bain]

The case style is art deco, which according to wiki, was popular from 1925-1939.

[Spaceman Spiff]

From the dial and case styles, it is not that old....Harold's dates seem much more reasonable.

Hi, inbeat.
Again, my apologies for posting two clocks in messages right after each other, but, depending on which clock Harold was referring to, the other dates (from Hayson) might be referring to a different clock than Harold. (It's clear Hayson was talking about the marble 3-piece clock, but I'm not so sure if Harold was referring to the same clock or to the Detex watchman's clock).
Sorry for the confusion,
John

[Spaceman Spiff]

OK, looks like Harold and I are replying at the same time!
:D

It's now clear both Harold and Hayson were referring to the marble 3-piece.

Thanks, everyone!
(Hayson, I agree with you about the emblem deciphering. I think they omitted the word "Medaille" in favor of the medal symbol in the center).
John
P.S. Wow, so I ended up with two Japy Frères clocks in one week!

[Hayson]

Hi, yes things did get a bit confusing for a while there. To tell the truth I barely looked at the front of the clock as I was too busy trying to make sense of the back plate. Harold is quite right about the art-deco styling of course. I know that some count wheel roulants were still being made in the closing stages of their manufacture pre WW2, but I would have thought most were using a rack by the '30's? I don't claim to be an expert, so I'd appreciate some enlightenment from someone who is. Do we know with reasonable certainty that the movement is original to the case?

[harold bain]

John, your Detex clock could easily be about the same age (they never had any art deco influences). I believe Detex may still be in business.

[itbme1987]

here is an ansonia clock i picked up today, case needs a few touch ups but here it is

[Spaceman Spiff]

Hi, Ryan.

I really like the shape of that case.

Good find!
John

[harold bain]

ryan, it looks like a cross between the Angelo and the Imogene in Tran's book. Does it have a visible excapement movement?

[itbme1987]

yes it has an open escapment, when i bought it the movement was out of the case

[harold bain]

I seem to have an attraction to these heavyweights, as well as the slate clocks. Should look great when you finish it.

[Scottie-TX]

I also like it's gabled top.
CONGRATS! Nice find.

[joe dee smith]

Glad to see this one. I just received the very same clock that needs some restoration. Nice to have an example. Joe

[Hayson]

Hi, yes things did get a bit confusing for a while there. To tell the truth I barely looked at the front of the clock as I was too busy trying to make sense of the back plate. Harold is quite right about the art-deco styling of course. I know that some count wheel roulants were still being made in the closing stages of their manufacture pre WW2, but I would have thought most were using a rack by the '30's? I don't claim to be an expert, so I'd appreciate some enlightenment from someone who is. Do we know with reasonable certainty that the movement is original to the case?

???

[Spaceman Spiff]

???

Hi, Hayson.

Thanks for reminding us of your questions. I'm not sure if you're asking me or the gurus on here, but I'm not wise enough to see any subtle signs of whether the movement has been changed. From what I can tell, it seems to fit perfectly and I see no evidence of extra screws, holes, etc. (And I don't know enough about the dates/eras of various mechanisms, stylings, etc).

Maybe someone else in the forum can suggest further.

Sincerely,
John

[Hayson]

Thanks for the reply John. Not being "snarky" but I'd really like to know whether countwheel strikes were still common on roulants in the "30's. Cheers.

[Ray Fanchamps]

Due to excessive resource utilization this thread was converted into multiple volumes.
All the content is retained in a currently 7 volume set. You are welcome to continue to post and we will create new volumes as needed.

[R. Croswell]

This small French "Crystal Regulator" is my latest acquisition. I bought it at a local estate auction this week for $165. I don’t usually collect French clocks, but there was just something about this one that I liked, so I went “over budget” and brought it home. Maybe it was the plain simple lines and a somewhat understated elegance for a crystal regulator. Then maybe it was the mercury pendulum; I don’t have any other clocks with mercury pendulums.

The movement has the Japy Freres logo. The clock is 6 inches wide and 10 inches tall with bevel glass sides and door panels. The clock is shown "as received” and obviously needs to have the brass polished, but it is running, striking properly, and keeping time. I can see no cracks in the face and no chips in the glass. I believe everything is original, including the mercury jar pendulum that still retains the real mercury. The strike hammer appears to have been repaired. I don’t know the model name, or if it has one. I’m guessing it was probably made in the very early 1900s.

Bob C.

[Steven Thornberry]

Bob: Very nice crystal regulator at the right price. Simple, elegant lines; the mercury pendulum is a definite plus.

[Spaceman Spiff]

I'm jealous!

I have always wanted a crystal regulator clock, but have never been lucky enough to come across one for less than $300 or $400 or more....

Congrats! :thumb:
John

[inbeat]

Picked this up last week. It has one ding on the black base but not bad. Not my kind of clock but I might live with it for a bit.

[Veritas]

Bob nice find.:)
I think you did well for the price too.
I would love to have one some day. And as a dded bonus i am certain my better half would like it, and allow it to reside in the living room.
Somewhere.:o

[R. Croswell]

Bob nice find.:)
I think you did well for the price too.
I would love to have one some day. And as a dded bonus i am certain my better half would like it, and allow it to reside in the living room.
Somewhere.:o

I'm pleased with it and I don't have a "better half" please, but there's always the question if it will get along and play well with the other clocks. I have one clock that has a fit and usually stops or otherwise cuts a shine whenever it "sees" a new clock arrive.........yes it really does. Another nice thing about this clock is it's small size. I have a very small house and 47 other clocks so space is at a premium.

Bob C.

[Burkhard Rasch]

Hi Teaclocks!The shape of the dial,the use of chromium both on the "bezel" and on the pendulum bob and the well made metall plaque point to french,I´d guess 1930ies(Art deco style)Vedette is the most commonly known maker of this type of clocks,but there were others like Girod.They usualy have verry good mvmts (better than their german contemporaries),dead beat esc.,cut pinions and patent barrels.And they haver a full deep sound.I love them!Can You post a pic of mvmt.back and front?
Burkhard

[malcolmt]

Hi Folks
Not actualy that new to me but never before shown online, (hope thats ok ?)

23058 23059 23060

I serviced oiled and cleaned it when i first got it, Oh and fitted new bellows, It has run sweetly ever since.

Kind regards

Malcolm

[Spaceman Spiff]

Hi, Malcolm.

Those mantle cuckoos are very cool. Nice pics!

I have one, but mine is a "newer model," not an old original.

Thanks for sharing the photos,
John

[Scottie-TX]

Yer right SPIFF; I like EVERTHIN 'bout 'em except the price. Very nice.

[itbme1987]

well here are some pics of the clock back togather and least for the last 5 mins running after all the work needed, and to add a special thanks to Mr. LaBounty for the part needed

[Chris Radano]

Newer to this home is a cuckoo quail clock (along the line of cuckoos). The movement is a good one, stamped G.H.S. I would date around 1915. We only run this occasionally, the wife wants it stopped at night. Also, weight drop requires frequent winding. Still, is a humorous and homey addition :rolleyes:

[Chris Radano]

I just unpacked this boy. My latest ebay special. A bracket clock, with original bracket. Unbelievable! :thumb: Keep on looking out for dumps with "Buy It Now" LOL!! A couple things...the convex dial glass broke with shipping. Looks like the bezel is locked, and there is no key. Well, still drooling. Happy Thanksgiving!!:p

[harold bain]

Nice catch, Chris. Any names on it? I've had a few "buy it now" bargains.
Happy Thanksgiving:D

[Veritas]

Nice clock Ryan, i am thinking that one is a keeper.

Chris nice find.I saw a nice clock with buy it now. I took too long and it was gone, really fast.
Looks like a good deal there Chris and a nice cuckoo you posted too.

[Chris Radano]

Thank you. The clock is unsigned. Not bad for late 18th c.-turn of the 19th c. The enamel dial is original, even the fabric in the fish scale brass side frets looks orignal. The movement is large, engraved back plates. I saw a signed clock similar to this one, sell in the UK for a lot of money (I couln't afford that one)- And it was very rough, with missing case trim. Harold and Kevin, Happy Thanksgiving. Have some turkey, cranberries, and stuffing! :wink:

[inbeat]

Nice clock...and the bracket also.......a real deal I am sure....

[Veritas]

Hi Chris we already had Thanksgiving here.
A happy and healthy Thanksgiving to you and yours.:)

[Scottie-TX]

This certainly won't cause any wave of excitement or produce any ooohs or aaahs in the world of esoteria, but you know my deal. Wierd things fascinate me. This unusual acquisition is a long duration Vienna and it is massive . Duration? Testing hasn't begun. I plan to install an hour hand and let it freerun under control of course, and measure cable descent after perhaps 24 revolutions of hour hand. Here's some pixtures next to a common 8 day Wiener:

[Scottie-TX]

Here, between the plates: It does have powr mtc. altho pawl is currently not installed. Note TWO - I don't know the proper term - I call 'em AUX wheels between the winding drum and centershaft. These divide the power down to the going train. I'm betting six month duration.

[Spaceman Spiff]

This certainly won't cause any wave of excitement or produce any ooohs or aaahs in the world of esoteria, but you know my deal. Wierd things fascinate me. This unusual acquisition is a long duration Vienna and it is massive . Duration? Testing hasn't begun. I plan to install an hour hand and let it freerun under control of course, and measure cable descent after perhaps 24 revolutions of hour hand. Here's some pixtures next to a common 8 day Wiener:

Hi, Scottie.
Very interesting.
Do you have any pics of the entire clock (or at least the case)? It must indeed be massive!
Thanks,
John

[Sooth]

Wow, Chris, that's a gorgeous bracket clock. I am still hoping to own a similar clock someday.

Scottie: Amazing movement. It's certainly a very wonderful find. How large is the dial? Almost looks like 8-10" dia.

[Scottie-TX]

No, SS; Sure don't. There was probably a divorce many years ago over in Eastern Europe. Sure wish it could talk. I know LAB's going, "oh GROOAANN". Naw, I'm the curator of the movement only. I sort of run a halfway house for wayward Wieners.

[François]

My latest. A 1927 Westminster 3 Sessions with only 2 mainsprings. Quite tricky to work but a gorgious clock. Wasn't working but had it on Ebay for almost nothing (37$). Now it work and chime great. On the last pic there is the sticker from the jewellery that sells the clock. It was probably a christmas gift.

[Spaceman Spiff]

Congrats, François.

A friend of mine has one of those 2-barrel Westminster clocks. That's the only other one I'd ever seen.

Very interesting.
Thanks,
John

[R. Croswell]

Congrats, François.

A friend of mine has one of those 2-barrel Westminster clocks. That's the only other one I'd ever seen.

Very interesting.
Thanks,
John
I also purchased on of these on eBay some months back, mostly just to see what made them work and why so many people seem to dread working on them. It’s quite a clever design with fewer parts than a three-train Westminster. Really not difficult to work on once one understands the unusual way it counts using two racks and two snails. Mine is not the greatest time keeper but very reliable and it has a great sound.

Here are some detail pictures of my No.3 along with a detailed explanation of how this unusual chime-strike train works. Sessions 2-train Westminster Chime (http://www.greenfieldstore.com/clocks/sessions_no3.html)

Bob C.

[François]

I also purchased on of these on eBay some months back, mostly just to see what made them work and why so many people seem to dread working on them. It’s quite a clever design with fewer parts than a three-train Westminster. Really not difficult to work on once one understands the unusual way it counts using two racks and two snails. Mine is not the greatest time keeper but very reliable and it has a great sound.

Here are some detail pictures of my No.3 along with a detailed explanation of how this unusual chime-strike train works. Sessions 2-train Westminster Chime (http://www.greenfieldstore.com/clocks/sessions_no3.html)

Bob C.
Thanks Bob for the explanations. In fact you are rigth when you say that is is not that uneasy "once you understand" but it takes a little patience and a lot of retry to put everything in sync.:)

[Steven Thornberry]

Yesterday's acquisition, the Gilbert Dacca, ca. mid-1880's. It came in walnut or ash with walnut trimmings. From the color of the wood, I would believe this is the ash, but I wouldn't fall on my sword over that. I have to admit that Gilbert made some nice looking walnuts in the late 1870's to 1880's. It has the G.B. Owen patented gong. Owen's name does not appear on the gong, but the patent dates are the ones shown in Tran's Gilbert Supplement, p. 63. The glass is original; I have seen this design on pictures of other Gilberts. The RJOE is not original, but a modern replacement, as can be determined from his size, which is a bit too small for the balcony.

[Jeremy Woodoff]

Looks like ash with walnut trimmings to me.

[Chris Radano]

Looks like ash to me, too.

[Spaceman Spiff]

...The RJOE is not original, but a modern replacement, as can be determined from his size, which is a bit too small for the balcony.

What's an "RJOE?"
John
P.S. Hmm, is "Jolly Old Elf" somehow a part of that acronym? :Party:

[Scottie-TX]

Here: Added this one last week. It'll replace a more common one that stands by my work area. I just LOVE these open scapements. This one's a Japys. I'll provide it a paper dustcover to keep the works clean.

[Steven Thornberry]

What's an "RJOE?"
John
P.S. Hmm, is "Jolly Old Elf" somehow a part of that acronym? :Party:

Where's Clement Moore when you need him? Right Jolly Old Elf. You were getting there.:thumb:

[Burkhard Rasch]

Scottie,wonderfull,but my hair stands up seeing these delicate ew-teeth!I´d never dare to do something on these clocks myself!
Burkhard

[Scottie-TX]

Actually BURK, those garnet pallets are FAR more delicate - more easily damaged - than the escape wheel. I gussied it up a bit. Hope I didn't devalue it but I did. The anchor, escape wheel, and bridge bushing for EW were a rough finish somewhat like a casting. I rubbed them out and polished them to a high gloss brass finish for effect. Now, those pallets: I found the crutch collar very loose on the anchor arbor and I left it that way. I did not try to tighten it because the pallets are so brittle that a stiff crutch would break them during beat setting. It gets out of beat with even the slightest jar, but can never break a pallet if it locks on tooth landing.

[Steven Thornberry]

Very nice, Scottie. That movement/dial is just asking for a nice case!

[Burkhard Rasch]

Scottie,are there "banking-pins"for the crutch to protect pallets or teeth?
Burkhard

[Scottie-TX]

Nope; Sure ain't any bankin' pins. Never was.

[gvasale]

this saw less than 50 years of service. it replaced a Howard striking clock. it was replaced with a no maintenance (sort of) electric.

[Scottie-TX]

Nice. VERY nice. Turret? Tower (nom.?)
I'd LOVE to someday have one. Alas, where do I put one in an apt? Oh yeah. The Patio. Weight could hang thru the floor to patio below.

[mikeinjax]

Here is a Salas Hoadley I picked up before the New Year. Let me know the good, if any, and the bad.

[mikeinjax]

A few more pictures of Salas Hoadley.

[Scottie-TX]

I know only good about it. Beautiful clock I know you're proud to be curator of. CONGRATS

[mikeinjax]

Thanks Scottie, I hope some one will pick up on the cannon pinion and the brass bushings inserted in the ivory bushings.

[Richard T.]

Another Silas Hoadley...

Best,

Richard T.

[mikeinjax]

Very nice Richard T.

[gvasale]

Next to the sound of a tower clock being heard through a couple of floors of a building, woodworks clocks have a wonderful tick-tock sound.

[DBPhelps]

Nice Hoadleys guys!

D

[Jeff Salmon]

Here is my 'newest' aquisition: Actually this was the first clock I bought, in 1972. The reason it is a 'new' aquisition is that I just completed an overhaul on it after many years of silence. I removed this clock from the original owner's home in Bellingham, Washington in 1972. I knew nothing about clocks then, but I knew I liked this one. You should have seen the superb mahogany bedroom suite made by Berkey and Gay that this went with. I removed it from the gentleman's high chest. It was bought out from under me (I was broke anyway--I was only 22), but several months later I did get to buy it from the friend who bought it. I still like it.

It is a HUGE clock measuring 32" wide, 15" high, and 8 1/4" deep, all mahogany. The bezel is 8 1/2" in diameter.

The movement measures 6 3/8" by 6 1/2". The plates are .1465" thick. The mainsprings are 1 1/4" wide! All polished wheels. The movement weighs 9.33 pounds, and the pendulum and additional 3/4 pound. The maker's mark indicates "MUELLER and Co." with the flower (rose?) above the letters R S M. The gong set is huge as well, and has the BEST sound quality I have ever heard. That is what really hooked me, and made me had to have it. After it was bought out from under me, the guy made comments about the great quality etc., and how he'd never sell it. When it finally made it to his shop (one of the springs was broken), and I heard it chime...I was a goner. We made a deal and I spent several months paying for it.

[Scottie-TX]

You got me beat. I fold. I thought my 27" KIENZL was big? Yes. Yours is a very beautiful, high quality piece. CONGRATS. I can only imagine how it sounds as my KIENZLE, owing to it's large case and LOOOOONG rods also is very resonant - LOUD - the way I prefer it.
CONGRATS! Nice clock.

[Steven Thornberry]

My newest is the Ingraham Oriental. It has a nice rosewood case and original dial. The label is pretty good but darkened and has the remains of some sort of an overpasted label. Ingraham made this model betwen 1874 and 1880. I reckon mine to have been made between 1874 and October 1878. The signed movement does not have the patent dates of Oct. 1878/Nov. 1879 that are commonly seen. In any event, it is a nice clock.

[inbeat]

Great and hard to find clock in what looks to be really nice condition....Way to go Steven T.

[Steven Thornberry]

Great and hard to find clock in what looks to be really nice condition....Way to go Steven T.

Thanks, Inbeat, but isn't the proper terminology "Rare! L@@k!" Or am I thinking of something else? :D

[ClockJim]

Great Looking Oriental Steven T

Always wanted one... never found one that was in such good shape that matched my pocket book.

I'm turning green.

[Richard T.]

Reference is made to Jeff Salmon's posting regarding RMS w/rose trademark.

Nice clock .

Kochmann in his Trademark Index of European Clocks incorrectly attributes this trademark to Mueller and Co.

I am quoting a posting by Doug Stevenson from May 2005 on this subject. (Couldn't find it with a search but I did have a printed copy in my copy of Kochmann).

"Greetings Chick, hi Mun! This is one of those delightfully messy matters that led to the famous saying that "a rose is a rose is awry." Basically, it went like this.

The firm Rup [for Rupert] Amann Fabrik fur Federzug- & Gewicht-Regulateure, of Muhlheim [on the] Donau, in Wurttemberg, founded in 1867, was sold in 1882 to Reinhold Schnekenburger. It continued as R. Schnekenburger GmbH a.d. Donau- with the rose with the RSM trademark. Then amid financial problems, what by 1900 had become the Uhrenfabrik Muhlheim vorm. [vormals--earlier known as] R. Schnekenburger was taken over by a creditor, Albert Muller. And on 10 September 1900 (no doubt a semi-sunny day with a touch of rain) became the "Uhrenfabrik Muhlheim, Muller & Co." Indeed.

Now while the name with the rose changed, so-called regulators were made with it from after 1882 down at least to the Great War. But more specifically, the Uhrenfabrik Muhlheim, Muller & Co. continued to use the earlier Schnekenburger rose as a mark--yet without the M under the stem. There's a full page ad for example from 1913 (reproduced on page 77 of Kahlert's _Uhren 1913_ available through the NAWCC's Library & Research Center) for the Uhrenfabrik Muhlheim, Muller & Co. which shows two marks, one on either side of the bold "Uhrenfabrik Muhlheim." the first is of their lion with the U.M. underneath. The other is of the rose with an R on one side of the stem, and an S on the other. And they made just about everything--grandfather clocks and wall clocks and alarms and "loose" good quality movements (which others could stick in cased) and so on. Whew. Regards, Duck."

Best,

Richard T.

[Sooth]

Mike, about your Hoadley:

Good: excellent case in overall good condition. A few chips, but they don't detract, and could be fixed if desired. The movement appears to be original, but I'm not sure (I'd have to check the wooden works ID Guide).

Bad: The tablet is not original. It appears to be a Victorian print that's been glued into the door. It's NICE, however, so I'd keep it this way.

As for the brass in ivory bushings, these could also be easily redone, using cow bone (as this was commonly the material used).

The brass bridge pieces all appear to have had small screws added to them. These are not correct. And again, these could be remade and reinstalled properly (holes int he wood could be patched with wood splints).

I don't quite understand what's up with the canon arbor. It's not readily clear in the photos.

Richard, I don't know if you wanted opinions on yours or not: Nice case, however all the stencils have been overpainted. The tablet is also a newer (incorrect style) replacement.

Jeff Salmon, upon first glance, I'm thinking this movement is English made, and installed in an American case (originally done this way). Reading your post seems to confirm this: Muller=retailer, and the movement is an RMS (German made, I believe). Also, if you aren't aware, 5 coil gong clocks are very much sought after, and quite $$$. Really nice clock, and you should be happy that you were able to re-acquire it.

[Richard T.]

Sooth,

The Hoadley isn't mine but belongs to a friend.

If you will go back one page and read my quote regarding Jeff Salmon's clock you will see that D.K. Stevenson (duck) explains it in detail.

Best,

Richard T.

[Jeff Salmon]

Richard:

Thanks for the clarification on my "Mueller" clock. I remember being told when I bought the clock that it was a wedding present in 1915. Somewhere back in my history wih this clock, I inquired about it's make. I believe I wrote to someone in the NAWCC and was given the name 'Schneckenberger'. I have lost that paper, though. This new info brings me up-to-date.

Sooth: Thank you for your comments. The dial is marked, "Germany", and there is no retailer name, either on the dial or on a sticker on the case. I think that this clock perhaps was originally made for the British market: it's size, and the quality of the movement. There certainly was no American maker of clocks like this. I have seen just a few clocks with this type of strike tripping mechanism. The chime train has no warning. There is a large flirt piece that is spring loaded and when it is released, it springs up and hits a pin on the rack hook for the chime rack and knocks it out of the way. That frees up the train to run. I have a couple of movements with this type of release. One is a very large FRENCH make, the other is unmarked, but looks like a smaller version of the pictures.

Jeff

[mikeinjax]

Sooth, thanks for your overall assessment of my Hoadley. Sorry for the slow response have been out of town a few days.
If you get time, please check the Wooden Works ID Guide for me as I have no reference on these movements.
I agree with you on the tablet and it is a very old print.
The bridge pieces are Ivory or bone strips not brass and yes extra screws have been added to them.
Now as for the cannon arbor. It has been shortened and a piece of square plastic has been added, see pictures. The hour hand has a large square hole in it in order to fit over the now square arbor. A mess! What wood would be used for repair? Apple,cherry?? How to determine the original length of the arbor? What would the outside diameter be at the bushing end of the arbor? Can any one post a good picture of the cannon arbor? Any help on the arbor is appreciated.

[haneyk]

Here's my latest, an Ingraham Grecian to go along with my Ionic! Something about both of those designs really appeals to me.

Kevin

[Steven Thornberry]

Beautiful Grecian, Kevin. Is it rosewood? I have always had a fondness for Ingrahams, and the Grecian (and Ionic) is especially nice. A few years ago I picked up for a good price a Mosaic Grecian. One of my favorites. I also have a nice Ionic.

[haneyk]

Its walnut Steven.

[Mark de Regt]

My first post here. :)

My latest clock is an old (about 1915) Chelsea time-and-strike bracket clock. It's a pretty clock, and it sounds nice, but that's not why I bought it (it's my 10th clock, all kept wound and sounding, so we hardly needed another). The real reason is that it was originally sold by Tilden-Thurber, the jewelry store in Providence where my wife and I bought her engagement ring, and our wedding bands, over 30 years ago. Pretty cool to find that out here, 3,000 miles away!

[Steven Thornberry]

Welcome to the board, Spider. Not everyone bedazzles us with his/her first post, but that is a beautiful clock and, I would think, one not frquently found.

[Chris Radano]

Not the prettiest thing, I know. But for a grand total of 69 bucks, this is a fusee movement, with dead beat + maintaining power. Missing back foot (as unpacked).

[harold bain]

Nice clock, Chris. I have worked on a couple of Tameside clocks, and found them to be good quality.

[Scottie-TX]

"Deadbeat", fusee, etc. ALL nice attributes of a T/O timepiece. Should be fairly akrit I'd think. Nice. VERY nice. CONGRATS!

[itbme1987]

here is my latest diamond in the rough

[RobertG]

Ryan:

I like it! Be sure to post it again once your diamond is all polished up pretty.

RobertG

[harold bain]

It has potential, Ryan. What make is it?

[itbme1987]

Its a Gilbert, when i bought it i thought it was an ansonia since i havent really seen many other companies make a cast iron case. it does have some chips of paint gone and rust in some areas...but its only light surface on the edges where the enamel is gone, it also needs a glass and it does have incisions where gold should be but is missing so im going to get some stuff to fill in. also as you can see the paper dial on it is faded alot

[cmhjms]

Very nice, Tameside, Chris! I have the same clock, but with a wonderful oak case, and it runs and runs and runs...

Tameside is very high quality British clock, but I have been able to find out very little about them. I tried a few years ago when I bought the oak model, and there is very little information out there. I also have a Tameside balloon timepeice that is a true basket case. Its seems to have gotten wet at some point years ago, and by the time I found it almost all of the mahogany veneer and inlays had dropped away. But the movement still runs like anything. Its in the garage, awaiting new veneer someday...

Jim Shannon

[Chris Radano]

Thanks, Jim. The case of this one is thin oak veneer over a pine carcass. Quite a bit lighter in weight than a typical period bracket clock with an oak carcass. When it's clean, it'll look nicer. The movement looks nice. I have seen the same clock for sale on ebay with railroad markings. This one is from ebay as well. A movement like this, + the reasonable price, = sold.

[harold bain]

Jim, and Chris, if you do a message board search, you will find some information linking Tameside clocks to Hirst Brothers.

[SrWilson]

I recently bagged a nice 1890s/1900 black forest quarter striking cuckoo quail clock, its a biggie too.

Pics soon!

[Scottie-TX]

Now THAT's a surprise SR: I'da never dreamed you'd want something like that. Interesting. For me, WAAAAAAY too much chirpin' goin' on there. CONGRATS!

[SrWilson]

I have 5 now including this one, I've had the others for YEARS!

[Made-in-furtwangen]

I recently picked up this unusual BF Automaton for my collection and thought I would share.

The clock is documented in Rick Ortenburgers Book, "Black Forest Clocks" on pg 238. The book is availible from the NAWCC lending library.

The Automatn is a Rat Eater...and the only one known to be made.
The clock was owned by the late Charles Terwilliger for many years... and passed to the previous owner in the Early 1980's where it remained until last week.

The clock is poking fun at Napolean and his starving soldiers.

On top of the clock seats a French Napolean Era Soldier in Millitary uniform... holding a plate of rats.

The clock is very simular in construction to the more common dumpling eater.

On demand or every 5 minutes as the clock runs the Soldier shovels three rats into his mouth. He chews them quickly before moving on to the next rodent.

The clock has automa in the Eyes, Mouth, Arm and rat that passes through the mouth.

I have been "hunting" this clock for years...

I hope others enjoy seeing these more detailed photos and description of this piece... as a Black and White photo and a two line description is all that has been availible.

Best,

Justin

[swankyman]

Cool clock, be neat to see running on youtube

[ClockJim]

Justin.... Great!

[R. Croswell]

My latest acquisition is this lithe Seth Thomas Severn alarm, dated 1948. I’m afraid it’s more than a little out of place next to that last lovely clock, but for $1.99 the price was right, even if it was held together by tape and pretty beat up on arrival. The movement was actually in pretty good condition and after cleaning and oiling is running just fine.

I don’t usually collect things like this, but this one got my attention when I saw the name – “Severn”. My dad’s name was also Severn, so I said I’m going to have that clock! I later learned that Seth Thomas also made a little mantle clock with the same name, so now I would like to find one of those to go with this one.

Bob C.

[Jeff Salmon]

Here is a little boudoir clock that I recently acquired and restored. I bought it on e-bay and was really attracted by the Art Deco shape and the dial. The dial indicates the retailer, Bailey, Banks and Biddle, the fine firm located in Philadelphia. HOWEVER, what really got me was the movement and the signature on it. The movement is a Lemania, 15 jewel. Notice the hand engraving on the right: I PITOU FRANCE. Who was "I Pitou"? Well, Monsieur Pitou, according to Charles Allix, in his book on Carriage clocks, had a workshop, where he and his workmen finished carriage clocks and other small clocks. His workshop was the last of the 'old time' shops. There is a nice section on him on page 105-107. There is even a picture of him. He employed 8 workers and was 80 years old in 1970. I would guess that this clock was made in the 1920's, based on the style.

[Made-in-furtwangen]

Cool clock, be neat to see running on youtube


As you requested...

I posted a short Clip to You Tube.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eABQ8F5fbKw

[zepernick]

Thank you Justin for posting photos of this marvelous clock! With the click of the mouse we have a rat-eater.

Some clockies of course view automata like the "dumpling eaters" as gimmicky, if not trite. As if the Black Forest clockmakers were enjoying an extended horological adolescence.

But what makes this one so lively -- what adds a touch of vinegar to the meal, so to speak -- is the satirical rat-eater reference to the French (and might it be possible, please, to have a close-up of the emblem on that hat?).

Don't suppose there's any way to find out. But I'd really like to know if the clock was made with then current Franco-German, uh, misunderstandings in mind. More specifically, what we often term the Franco-Prussian War and Germans "der Deutsch-Französische Krieg 1870-71" (the German-French War).

Because -- speaking of Rattenfresser :)-- one thing that came up again and again in accounts of the Siege of Paris is that the French ended up "eating the zoo." And the forced diet included rats. Happen to have an in-German volume entitled Der Deutsch-Französische Krieg 1870-1871 that was especially written for German-Americans, and the author spent half a page on rats supposedly being in actual menus and the like.

French accounts included such, if with a more patriotic take. There's even a painting in this cheesy vein (below) of a rat-seller during the Siege by Narcisse Chaillou.

As a last example, an American reporter had already published his journal account of having been in the Siege, Shut up in Paris, by 1871. And he devoted part of a page to the munching of rats (also below).

Then again, it's hard to know if there was any timely reference. And even the reference to Napoleon's soldiers gets tricky as, at least in 1812, Baden was still fighting with the French.

But those are just by-the-ways. The main street is thank you again Justin for sharing this most interesting clock!

Regards
Zep

[Made-in-furtwangen]

Zep,

Thanks for your reply. Any assistance you can give would be great.
The hat has a spread wing eagle the head looking to the left the crown on the back of the head.

I can post a photo later this PM.

Justin

[Made-in-furtwangen]

Because -- speaking of Rattenfresser :)-- one thing that came up again and again in accounts of the Siege of Paris is that the French ended up "eating the zoo." And the forced diet included rats. Happen to have an in-German volume entitled Der Deutsch-Französische Krieg 1870-1871 that was especially written for German-Americans, and the author spent half a page on rats supposedly being in actual menus and the like.

French accounts included such, if with a more patriotic take. There's even a painting in this cheesy vein (below) of a rat-seller during the Siege by Narcisse Chaillou.

As a last example, an American reporter had already published his journal account of having been in the Siege, Shut up in Paris, by 1871. And he devoted part of a page to the munching of rats (also below).

Then again, it's hard to know if there was any timely reference. And even the reference to Napoleon's soldiers gets tricky as, at least in 1812, Baden was still fighting with the French.

But those are just by-the-ways. The main street is thank you again Justin for sharing this most interesting clock!

Regards
Zep


Zep,

I think the era of 1870 French German Conflict would be just about the time this piece was made... sounds like a more likley backdrop to this piece...

Please let me know what you think of the hat...

[northcoastimports]

Wow, that's fascinating Zep! Thanks for the info!

I was wondering the same thing... of course, it's important to realize that even if the state of Baden was fighting on the French side at the time, it doesn't mean that this particular clockmaker in the Black Forest saw himself as a Frenchman. In other words, it would probably be impossible to know whether this was a piece of nationalistic pride (made to celebrate the hardships of the French army) or taunting (made to show how pathetic the great French army was reduced to)

Also interesting is that he's got a three-corned hat. While we Americans usually attribute this dress to the 18th Century French, I think it was the fashion in all of Europe for a very long time. Also, is the hat on "backwards?" I'm not sure if that means anything, but I've usually seen the three-cornered hat point forward.

1790's:

http://napoleonistyka.atspace.com/rochambeau.jpg

Paintings I've seen of Napoleonic era soldiers have broad-fronted hats, but not three corners like on the clock.

http://napoleonistyka.atspace.com/captured_flags.jpg

French infantrymen in 1860 have hats and uniforms that are quite different:

http://napoleonistyka.atspace.com/infantry_1860.jpg
(I found these pictures at this website, which gives a history of the French Military: http://napoleonistyka.atspace.com/FRENCH_ARMY.htm)

It's difficult to find anything on the web about military dress. Here's a painting from the Franco-Prussian war where they are starting to use the "Pickelhuebe" already:

http://www.geocities.com/fpwar1870/images/bourbakipaint.jpg

(that's from http://www.geocities.com/fpwar1870/history.html)

It might be worth it to talk to a military historian - particularly one that knows about uniforms.

I actually know this clock quite well, and I'm not sure that the eagle is original. It could be a red herring. It always seemed too bright and shiny compared to the rest of the painting on the figure. For example, why aren't there buttons on his uniform with the same bright-gold paint? Maybe the eagle was painted on later to turn the figure into a Russian.

Unfortunately, the thing that might throw off your entire research is the fact that this clockmaker, buried deep in the Black Forest may not have even KNOWN what uniforms the French or Germans were wearing... maybe he just guessed! When researching this type of thing, we often make the mistake of assuming information traveled as fast then as it does now.

Dolf

[Made-in-furtwangen]

The eagle was clearly brighter than the rest of the paint...

I gently scratched the gold paint with my finger nail and it came right off to reveal another underneath... alittle smaller alot duller and well worn...

The figure looks to have been touched up here and there.

I am kind of lost in all this wonderful information.

Now that it is clear there was a eagle on his hat (picture attached) does anyone have any insight to what he his suposed to be?

Is he French?

Justin

[Made-in-furtwangen]

Ok here is a picture of the Hat. You can see the bits of the newer bright paint... with the old below.

Now it is clear the Eagle has always been there.. does anyone know what the means?

Justin

[zepernick]

Probably best to back up a bit here. My own interest in this clock in this thread (besides wondering if Justin knows when my birthday is) comes from a larger interest in traditional Black Forest clocks with patriotic motifs and allusions.

For instance, there's an article about a Rahmenuhr, a picture-frame clock, with images of "Vater Jahn" and other nationalistic motifs in the May 2007 issue of CLOCKS. The historical context -- the takeoff point as it were -- was "the tragic, bloody, bitter failure of the Baden revolution of 1848-49."

Or, as another example, the recent (2008) fourth edition of Berthold Schaaf's standard work, Schwarzwalduhren, shows a picture-frame clock with the moving-eyes addition with another patriotic reference. It features the Polish general Jozef Bem who fought on the good guys' (i.e. the losing) side of the '48 revolutions.

This is an interesting area and there is a literature about it in German (for example, in a 1965 essay by Rudolf Ströbel).

So I was curious if in fact we have a figure that was to be taken at the time as a French soldier eating rats, if the implicit motivation for its appearance in the last quarter of the 19th century was the German victory in the Franco-Prussian war. Not a hypothesis that it was. Rather, a might it have been.

That that tricorne style headgear was no longer used with French troops in that period is a given. But then again, that dumpling/potato eater figures as a Black Forest genre were frequently shown with three-corner hats is as well.

And if, say (<- that important) the eagle on a tricorne was to represent the French Imperial eagle, and that was enough to indicate to folk then that they were to see the figure as French, whether or not the figure was a historically accurate image (colors, uniform, etc,) might not be important.

Whew:).

Similarly, French soldiers eating rats (as with other soldiers eating rats -- not to mention rat/ions) show up in several wars. Schadow had a drawing of some French roasting rats during the retreat from Russia. There are references to the French soldiers having had to eat rats when they were in Mainz during "the first French occupation" in 1792. I'll attach (below) another of many references to the same that deals with Metz. Algeria in the colonial wars. Probably at KFC in Paris today.

Yet I suspect that the only way we could find out if the figure was supposed to have represented -- at the time it was made -- a French soldier from a particular war/period etc., would be to find a reference to it from the time it was made.

We can assume that more than one was made. If you were going to cast rats, you'd no doubt want to make more than one rat-muncher.

This is a basic principle of rat retailing.

Regards
Zep

[northcoastimports]

This is a basic principle of rat retailing.



lol, you crack me up.

This is definitely a carved piece, not cast... but that is neither here nor there.

I've only seen one of these, but that doesn't mean that many housewives didn't chase after the rest with a carving knife in a fit of confusion.

I think that Zep is right, we probably won't be able to tell which soldier is eating which rat by the dress, or expression on the rat's face... you'll have to do some research on the movement to find the time period Justin.

Dolf

[Bruce Barnes]

What does the back of the hat look like?,he almost looks like he should be sailing the "briney deep" under the Skull and Crossbones.............

[Made-in-furtwangen]

Bruce,

Back of the hat comes down to a point.

It is funny you said that...because for the longest time (before I owned the clock)... I thought he was a pirate as well.:)

If you look in Rick Ortenburgers book on Pg. 238 there is a dumpling eater with a very simular hat. The text blow says he represents someone from the French Revolution...

Justin

[Jeremy Woodoff]

Here is my newest--a three-piece clock and vase set. I got lucky again with shipping. The shipper separated the metal and porcelain parts. The porcelain pieces were wrapped in two old blankets and the metal pieces were in plastic bags laid on top of the blankets. No other packing materials. The box was in the Post Office's hands for 15 days, was crushed, and had a big hole out of one corner. Yet, amazingly, nothing was broken or missing.

The only picture I have seen of these is in Tran's Gilbert Supplement from 2000. There is a vase clock with side pitchers, though the pitchers are a different shape. None of the metal elements (base, spout, handle) match exactly anything illustrated in the Gilbert book, except for the clock dial surround, which appears to be an exact match. I've been assuming this is a Gilbert set. However, the movement, which is unmarked, is unlike any Gilberts I have seen. The pinion shrouds are silver metal and remind me of Westclox. Can anyone identify the movement?

The movement can was held to the back of the cast surround with epoxy and previously with solder. This is odd, as when fastened in this way there is no way to remove it without breaking the solder or glue bond. The bezel is a press fit into the can, and it fits in a recess in the surround. lI can't figure out how else the movement/can would have been held in place.

The porcelain is very dirty and will not clean up with the usual cleaners--soap and water, alcohol, or paint thinner. I don't want to be too aggressive, as I don't know how well fired the painted decoration is.

[Sooth]

I've had this for a little while, but I finally have a decent photo of it. This is my nice early Vienna movement. I suspect the pendulum doesn't go with it, since it's not quite a perfect fit, but it's of the same age. Likewise, the weight was purchased separately. The pulley is new. I plan to make a nice case for this.

Scottie is sure to like it.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v473/sooth15/ViennaMovement.jpg

[Scottie-TX]

Yeah. Nice. Very nice. Very exemplary of the period - late 18s. Very nice, distinctive typical hands. Do you operate it or just took a picture and put it away? When yer absolutely bored to death, those pulleys look very elegant when they're skeletonized!

[Sooth]

Yes I've been running it for a while now. It's just such a beautiful movement.

I don't know if I'll bother to thin down the spokes on the pulley any further. It looks pretty decent as-is. I don't want it to look too thin considering it's next to a rather rectangular/beefy weight.

I will eventually need to trim-off about 1/4" from the top of the pendulum rod and re-mount the top hook assembly, because I have no room for a suspension spring. No worries, though. It will look great once it's set up properly.

You had already seen some photos of this clock. I think it was a bit earlier than late 1800's. Perhaps more like 1850. It has a triangular (long) one piece anchor.

See here:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v473/sooth15/ViennaAfter2.jpg

[Scottie-TX]

Yeah! My favoritest - loooong anchor spanning a buncha teeth.
Reason I asked if you operate it is, I make dust covers for 'em when I run 'em open like that - have it wrap the movement and tuck or fold under bottom with a hump atop to accomodate anchor collars. Just finished one for little Frenchie here, running open without a case. I make 'em from .005, 36 ga. brass.

[Made-in-furtwangen]

This is my newest addition to my collection.

It is a Trumpeter Clock. Made by Emilian Wehrle around 1880.

The clock is 44" High and 31 Wide at the base.

The clock has a large three train movement. (Time, strike and Music) The clock runs for 8 Days.

The clock plays the William Tell on 8 horns on the hour.

This trumpeter is the heaviest carved example I have ever seen...

Every Inch of the clock is carved!

The case is Solid Walnut (no Linden or Veneers)

The case is carved all the way around to look like a tree.

The roof is fully carved with Singles ( A popular style of Beha)

The side doors are carved, oak leaves and acorns...with silk behind to allow the music out.

The dial and bezel etc is carved to death... the center of the dial with flowers no larger than the tip of the nail on my smallest finger.

Also on other Large Wehrle trumpeters the case is held up on carved legs, so the side view of the clock is less than flattering...as you can see under the case.

This example the base is solid all the way around...

There are also two trees that are part of the bottom base... that have "grown" up the back edge of the case all the way to the roof gable.

But it is the stories that come with the clocks that make them special.

This clock was collected on Saturday 2/7/09 ... equipped with a large travel dolly, and a blanket... I was able to convince TSA and southwest airlines to allow this 70 pound monster into the main passenger cabin of the plane...strapped it to the seats (yes sideways it take up two):o for its 2500 mile flight home! (see pic)

It will be a trip I will never forget...

It is also good to know this is an option for future clocks where the risk of shipping is too great.

[itbme1987]

Thats a very beautiful carved clock, Very nice find, if its not too much trouble if you decide to make a youtube video of it playing the music, could you post a link?

[Made-in-furtwangen]

The clock plays currently but not well.

I will be doing the bellows and valves in the next few weeks.

When the musical restoration is finished... I will upload a You tube video and post to the site.

[inbeat]

What a great clock....Great carving and great size.....

[Chris Radano]

Justin, that is an unbelievable clock. Did you pick it up within US borders? I suppose so...

I just had this movement imported from the UK. All that remains of this is a time only movement, and hands. Looks like from a bracket timepiece. I think it's one of the more pretty movements I've seen. Altough not a "skeleton clock", I figure someday it will look good running on a stand under a glass dome.

[Made-in-furtwangen]

Chris-

Yes the clock came out of Connecticut. The pictures do not do it justice... it is a piece that must be seen in person.

Interesting movement you found. I agree it looks to be out of a bracket clock... and of high quality.

Justin

[Scottie-TX]

Agreed, CHRIS! Some movements just shouldn't languish, emprisoned behind a labyrinth wood coffin. Nice anchor style recoil will display well. Nice.

[Chris Radano]

Thank you Scottie, I thought you'd like it. With a heavy fusee-type pendulum, should not have much overswing.

[Spaceman Spiff]

Wow, Justin, that clock is incredible!! :o Congrats!!

Your tale about taking it on Southwest Airlines made me laugh. I've brought back a few that way myself. And, gee, isn't it always fun taking them through airport security? I always plan for an extra 15 minutes for them to call the security supervisor over to examine the odd contraption they see in their x-ray machine! (I usually forewarn them that they're going to see something strange!) But I've never dreamed of transporting something THAT big! Wow! Kudos to Southwest for allowing you to take it into the cabin. (They're the best airline, in my opinion, by far!!)

Thanks for sharing it.
John

[DBPhelps]

Elijah Warner, Lexington, KY clockmaker, ca 1820 with Luman Watson movement & signed dial. Tall case is mahogany with 4 carved columns on the corners of the bonnet.

It's highly unusual carved columns on either side of the clock's waist appear original to the clock and may have been incorporated to satisfy original owner's taste.

D

[DBPhelps]

Bonnet & dial

[DBPhelps]

Elijah Warner tall case carvings

[inbeat]

Very Nice indeed....

[gtodude2]

Well, I have 3 new acquisitions this week. Two Seth Thomas clocks and a Gilbert. The Gilbert we found at an estate sale in a storage facility hidden inside an antique sideboard. I'm not sure of the model but it's pretty cool anyhow. Here are some pics.

[dchase123]

Ok here is a picture of the Hat. You can see the bits of the newer bright paint... with the old below.

Now it is clear the Eagle has always been there.. does anyone know what the means?

Justin

Hi Justin

The eagle was used as a symbol by Napoleon. I have a small bust of Napoleon and on the front is the French Imperial Eagle.

Gerry

[clockdude]

inbeat, I took a look at the photos of the clocks you own, and they're very nice!

[Made-in-furtwangen]

Hi Justin

The eagle was used as a symbol by Napoleon. I have a small bust of Napoleon and on the front is the French Imperial Eagle.

Gerry


Gerry,

Thank you for your help. Do you happen to have a photo of the bust or the eagle? I am excited as details have been unfloding on this piece.

I have received an off board email from someone with a old print of Napoleon leading an army into a crowd of Rats and decay. The print was done in the time of Napoleon...

Best,

Justin
http://blackforestclocks.blogspot.com