Trouble "locking" new springs

[joe dee smith]

I am going nuts trying to close the inner most coil of two new loop end springs for a 1880's time and strike Ingraham movement. I have grabbed and grabbed with pliers and mis-shapenedly closed them into non-round loops which grab the post but will not hold to wind.

I am ready to give up.

Does anybody have a suggestion?

Thanks, Joe

[Willie X]

Joe,

Make sure the arbor's hook is sticking up at least three times the springs thichness. And, the hook should have a forward leaning rake, to help pull the spring down against the arbor. The rake can be absent (nutral) but a negative rake, or to short hook, will spell exactly the trouble you are having.

Good luck, Willie X

[shutterbug]

You don't want the very end bent too far because it holds the hole too high when it's pushing against the arbor. I like to use a T handle wire bender, but needle nose pliars will work fine. Grab it at the front of the hole, and apply pressure to straighten that area, and simultaneously bend it in a tight curve. It should be tight enough that you have to push the arbor into it with some effort. After it grabs and is wound once it will form itself to the arbor.

Editing to add: Just to be sure ..... make sure the spring is on the correct way. If you're trying to turn it the wrong way it will never wind. I know you're not doing that, but just in case :)

[joe dee smith]

Shut

I looked at another Ingraham and made sure the click catch was in the same direction to "insure" the spring was turned up the correct way. Am I wrong in assuming all Ingraham's would be the same? I'm working on a pre 1890 and referencing a 1909.

Joe

[joe dee smith]

Also, can you give me some info about the "T Handle Wire Bender". I have been looking but can't find such an animal.

Thanks again, Joe

[itbme1987]

here is a link to merrits and the wire bender they sell..i believe these are the ones mentioned

http://www.merritts.com/store4/public/product.aspx?ProductID=80982&SubcategoryID=2059

[joe dee smith]

Thanks

[itbme1987]

i had similar troubles with a small 1 day time only gilbert clock...what i did was i have this like kinda screwdriver, but all it was was a point at the end..i slipped int between the leaves and seen where the hole was in the mainspring where it needed to hook on...i just wound the clock as i put pressure on the spring en to catch and after a few turns it caught on

[shutterbug]

Shut

I looked at another Ingraham and made sure the click catch was in the same direction to "insure" the spring was turned up the correct way. Am I wrong in assuming all Ingraham's would be the same? I'm working on a pre 1890 and referencing a 1909.

Joe

Most are. I was cautioning about the direction of the spring matching the direction of the arbor. They can be put on the wrong way (especially on a winder). The loop end should be on top and on the opposite side from the direction you're turning (when the handle is on top too).

[joe dee smith]

I give up. I wrestled for 2 solid days and never could get them to set. This was harder than recovering from my kidney cancer surgery.

This is a retirement hobby supposedly for fun, so I'm going to declare myself a half-assed restorer and stick with movements that need less overhaul.

Thanks for the tips. Wedging the nearby loops was the closest to working. One of the springs caught for a 3/4 windup; then it snapped.

Joe

[R. Croswell]

.........This is a retirement hobby supposedly for fun, so I'm going to declare myself a half-assed restorer and stick with movements that need less overhaul............

We all get one like that now and then, but you will solve the problem once you determine just what the problem is. This is where it helps to have someone local to give you some "experienced" hands-on assistance. I suspect that the pin in the winding arbor is too short or does not have the correct shape as previously mentioned by others. Just change your evaluation of your ability to "half-fast" and realize that you just need a little more time to get it right. Others solve these problems all the time and you can to!

Bob C.

[aka]

The same thing happened to me, and I wasted couple of hours, and 8 day T&S movement.
1) The locking pin was not high enough, so i punched it from the opposite end of the arbor.
2) Once the pin was raised, it was easy enough to lock in the spring hole.

I guess the main thing is to lock the first loop, and the rest is done by the spring winder .

You do have a spring winder ? Dont give up.

thanks

[harold bain]

Joe, this isn't rocket science, just brain surgery. Take a break from it. But don't let it get you. This is very doable. You have a cheering section here with many years of experience trying to help you.
If it was too easy, it wouldn't be a challenge:thumb::thumb:

[joe dee smith]

What do you mean "the locking pin was too high"? With the arbor vertical, do you mean the pin should tilt up? It's pretty substantial. I'm surprised it's moveable. Also seems odd that both arbors would be a problem. But, they do come from an 1880's movement.

Can locking pins wear down to a point they won't hold?

Joe

[shutterbug]

It has to grab the hole and hold it. It might be undercut on the side that grabs the spring. Is the spring positioned so the hole passes directly over the pin?

[joe dee smith]

As best as I can tell, it does.

[harold bain]

Joe, can you post a picture of the spring arbor, showing the pin? Most new springs seem to be too loosely wound at the center, and often require some forming/bending to catch the first time. The pressure of a fully wound spring will do this forming once you catch it the first time.

[Veritas]

Joe i have had this problem in the past. I gave it to my buddy and he had it down in under a minute and he is no pro.
I just got exasperated and could not see the problem.
Pictures help a lot if you can post one.
And take a deep breath and relax. This is a fun hobby.
You have good people here who will help you.

[joe dee smith]

Picture - closest I could get and still have some focus

[shutterbug]

That seems well defined and should work. How about a picture now with the springs mounted (end view)?