Elgin BW Raymond 21j cal 571 w/ 8 adj

[andrewshane]

I have a question guys. I viewed a watch collection today and saw a very nice Elgin BW Raymond 571 cal 21j 8 adj. pocket watch. I've never seen an 8 adj. in person. I can't find any info in the Complete Price Guide either. When I ran the serial number through the database on Wayne Schlitt's site, it only returned with this movement in a 5 or 6 adj. Now, I did find a couple on the internet on various other sites, but still no info on how common or uncommon an 8 adj. is. I know there were thousands of post war BW Raymonds, but again unsure on the 8 adj. Thanks for any info you can provide. I'm sorry I don't have a photo. I do not have the watch in my possession.

Andrew

[Fred Hansen]

Hi Andrew -

Good question and this has come up here before. Here is a good past thread for you to read on this same topic ...

http://mb.nawcc.org/showthread.php?t=39144

Fred

[rrwatch]

There are a total of 9 possible adjustments:
Isochronism
Heat
Cold
Position - Dial Up
Position - Dial Down
Position - Pendant Up
Position - Pendant Left
Position - Pendant Right
Position - Pendant Down
Prior to WWII most watches used in railroad service were marked as to the number of positions that they were adjusted to, which was usually five, but was a maximum of six. (The position adjustment that was NOT required was Pendant Down.) All five or six position movements were also adjusted to heat, cold and isochronism, it just wasn't marked as part of the position adjustments.
After WWII, some Waltham Vanguard movements and all of the Elgin Grade 571 movements were marked as to their total number of adjustments, which, as listed above, could be a maximum of nine. There is some confusion as to whether an 8 adjustment movement was adjusted to five or six positions, there are conflicting contempory ads and literature, but all nine adjustment movements were adjusted to six positions.

[sdjencso]

Hi Andrew,

You also asked about the commonality of the 571 with 8 adjustments. Here are some notes I have regarding the 571:

The 571 has 3 types:
- Type I is marked Elgin 571, with 8 adjustments, but there are NO BW Raymond markings.
- Type II is marked Elgin 571, with 8 adjustments, and is marked BW Raymond.
- Type III is marked Elgin 571, with 9 adjustments, and is marked BW Raymond.

Of the 171,000 grade 571 movement produced, the Type I is the least common and was mfg'ed in 1946-1947. There were at most 17,000 type I's mfg'ed in the first 5 runs but observations by many collectors have shown there are 571's that are marked BW Raymond in the first 5 runs so its difficult to say how many type I's really exist.

The type II was mfg'ed from 1947-1951. There were somewhere around 91,000 of the type II's mfg'ed

The type III was mfg'ed from 1951-1954. There were somewhere around 63,000 of the type III's mfg'ed.

[andrewshane]

Thanks for the fantastic detail guys. This really helps me alot.

Fred, thanks for reminding me to search first. I always forget to do that. I'll learn my lesson one of these days!

Andrew