Is there an easier book for a beginner than "Complete Price Guide to Watches"?

[Kim G.]

Help!

I don't know why, but I have a really hard time trying to read/figure out/decipher the reference book entitled "Complete Price Guide to Watches", No.28, 2008 by Richard E. Gilbert, Tom Engle, and Cooksey Shugart.

It seems like when I go to look something up, every grade is there but the one I want. If I do find what I want, I feel unsure if it really the correct one because it never seems to match exactly. This book is so complex, especially for somebody who is brand new to this field!

With all of the diversity in types/grades/etc.... out there, I think I am better off starting with a easier reference book.

Does anybody have any suggestions?

I appreciate any responses!
Kim Gerard
onlinedeals-2008

[Jon Hanson]

Ask in these or other message boards; the PG is riddled with errors and omissions.

[Kim G.]

So that's what PG stands for! I was trying to figure that one out a while back, and I was way off!

Kim Gerard
onlinedeals-2008

[Jon Hanson]

PG=Price Guide.

I am not a typist like some of the other folks!:rolleyes:

[Jerry Treiman]

Kim - I am afraid that there is no such thing as an easier reference book, at least not one that will give you the information you seem to want. Most of the American watch companies grew over a period of several decades. During this time they made many changes in their watches. They were not always consistent in using grade names and finishes, both of these evolving with time. They also made many custom watches ("private labels") for various retailers that will not match what is listed in the price guide. Swiss companies and names can be even more complex. It is this complexity that allows this to be a lifelong hobby without it getting boring. The "Complete Price Guide ...." is a good start, though, and will help you to identify most of the common watches and many of the less common ones. It should also help you to appreciate the variety that is possible. In any field as complex as this there will be errors and incomplete information in an introductory book such as the "PG" and you can come here to ask those with more knowledge when you come across something confusing. With more knowledge you will begin to learn to recognize what inconsistencies are important and what are just minor variations. After 44 years in the hobby I am still learning.

[Kent]

Kim:

The Complete Price Guide to Watches is the easier book. One that is more complete, but a bit more difficult to use, is American Pocket Watches Beginning to End...1830-1980, Identification and Price Guide, Roy Ehrhardt & William Meggers, Jr., Heart of America Press, Kansas City, MO, 1987 (commonly referred to as “The Gold Book” - no longer in print - you might find it on eBay). However, it too has errors and gaps where the correct or full information was not known at the time of publication. Also, it somewhat depends upon the user having access to Roy Ehrhardt's earlier books about specific watch companies or general watch information.

[John Cote]

Help!

I don't know why, but I have a really hard time trying to read/figure out/decipher the reference book entitled "Complete Price Guide to Watches",

It seems like when I go to look something up, every grade is there but the one I want. If I do find what I want, I feel unsure if it really the correct one because it never seems to match exactly. This book is so complex

Does anybody have any suggestions?

Kim,

A price/reference guide to American Watches which included every grade and variation might be as big as the Encyclopedia Britannica. The problem with the Complete Guide is that it is really incomplete. It needs more info not less. It does a pretty good job of what it is intended to do which is be a basic guide.

Unfortunately, the only real way to get the knowledge you need is through experience...by "Staring and Comparing"...by making mistakes and asking questions. There is no real Complete Guide To Watches.

[Andy Dervan]

Hello,

Barry Goldberg wrote a short booklet titled "A Beginner's Guide to Pocket Watches" probably about 30 pages that is really great! The basics components of a pocket, explains terminology, has a number of illustrations, and has some information on watch companies. It costs about $ 10 and is well worth it. I occasionally put in my briefcase and browse through it while I am flying.

I think Barry has a website and is a NAWCC member.

Andy Dervan

[Kim G.]

I appreciate all of the excellent, informative responses!

Kim Gerard
onlinedeals-2008

[Kent]

To add to Andy's post, Barry's book is available at: http://www.cafepress.com/barrysworld/1287896
However, good as it is, it is rather general and doesn't list makes, models and grades of watches.

[Jon Hanson]

For specific American company assistance try Web Horology:

http://whmb.webhorology.com/index.php

[Dr. Jon]

I recommend two other books that are very good to get an initial orientation.

One is Marking Time by Michael Korda. Korda is a very good writer and editor at a major publishing house and a very serious watch collector. He is not into American watches but he does discuss them and many other approaches to collecting. The book is widely available very inexpensively as a remainder. You may find it at a local Barnes and Noble, who published it, or Borders.

The other book which is more European but very accessible is the classic, but rare and pricey, It's About Time by Paul Chamberlain. I encountered the book when I was in college and first getting interested in watches. It is what convinced me that there was serious material available on this subject. Buy it, or join the NAWCC and borrow it from the library.

Sadly there is not an easily accessible book that does for American Watches what Chamberlain and Britten did for English and European watches. However, there is a lot of very good introductory material in Shugart and its worth looking for and reading.

Another book I like, but many serious collectors hate, is The Time Museum Historical catalog of American Watches byDonald Hoke.

I also second the recommendation for Barry Goldberg's book.

[Jon Hanson]

another reasonable book is "Almost Everything You Wanted to Know About American Pocket Watches But Didn't Know Who to Ask" by Col Townsend.

[Clint Geller]

Hi Kim,

A new collector needs numerous different kinds of information to collect successfully. Not all of this information is published, and what of it that is published usually cannot be found in a single source. Let me break down the subject a little for you:

1. Historical information: By historical information I mean such things as: when, where and by whom a watch was produced and for which market; the niche a particular kind of watch occupied in the industry; it's major technical features and how they came about; and by what methods and with what machinery a particular kind of watch was produced. None of this information will tell you directly how much any watch is worth. Nevertheless, a watch's place in history is a critical contributor to collector interest and thus, value. The best general reference on American watchmakinig history is undoubtedly the NAWCC BULLETIN Supplement by Mike Harrold, "American Watchmaking: A Technical History of the American Watch Industry, 1850-1930." This is not a doctoral dissertation that delves into the minutiae of any particular watch model, but rather a masterful and highly readable overview of the entire subject touching upon not only the watches themselves, but the key historical personalities, dates and places, and the critical technical innovations which underlayed the initial success and subsequent evolution of American watchmaking. I was fortunate to have been handed a copy of this book as a new collector and it really ignited my interest. Mike's book is available from the NAWCC lending library.

2. Technical information: In this category I include such things as: the varieties and changing cosmetic and functional details of different watch models; production figures and dates, especially of the scarce watch varieties that are of the greatest interest to collectors; and what dials and what cases are appropriate for a particular watch movement, (Dial and case appropriateness can vary with movement serial number, even among otherwise "identical" movements.) Much of this information is available, but not exclusively in books. For Waltham, see Ehrhardt's Encyclopedia of American Watches Volume I; for Illinois, see Bill Meggers' book on that company; for US Marion, see Muir and Krauss; for E. Howard & Company ("early Howards"), see my book and several Bulletin articles by me or by Harold Visser and myself. (The NAWCC Chapter 174 and 149 websites are also very useful.)

3. People information: By this I mean such things as: What different people know; what they collect; what specific individuals may be buying or selling; who is a good restorer/repairer; where to find spare parts; and good people to do business with. You won't find this kind of information in books. You learn it by paying your dues (and usually some "tuition") by investing the time to get to know other people in the hobby.

4. General collector savvy: In this category I include such things as: how to evaluate condition, functionality and originality of movements, cases and dials; and knowing which problems with a watch can reasonably be fixed and which must be lived with. Some of this information is written down, but most of it is not.

5. Valuation information: This category obviously overlaps condition and originality assessment, but principally I mean the street value of watches (which may vary with sales venue). Price guides often are outdated even when they are printed, if they ever were realistic at all. With respect to American watches, they are generally only useful for relatively common, frequently traded watches like common keywinds or the less esoteric railroad watches. (If you still rely on the Shugart Guide, you shouldn't be buying really rare, expensive watches yet, anyway.) Conversely, for common American watches, the Shugart guide in particluar has somewhat of a self-fulfilling aspect to it, since so many buyers and sellers consult it. The Shugart guide has some good technical information and a lot of useful pictures in it. However, it often gives you just enough information (and occasionally, misinformation) to get a novice into trouble, because you often need considerable collector savvy (especially as regards condition and originality assessments, knowledge of which kinds of dials and cases are appropriate for which kinds of movements, etc.) to apply the Shugart guide's information soundly. This book also doesn't list some interesting watch varieties or features that can significantly affect value, and it does list some watch varieties that don't actually exist.

[Ray Fanchamps]

Please continue to add titles to the listing, it makes for a good thread.

As for the personal stuff, well, it just not why we are here and you should expect such content to be deleted.

Different opinions, sure, no problem, just discuss them based on the facts not personalities.

Thanks

[Jon Hanson]

FACT: WEB HOROLOGY is the largest WEB PRESENCE, and you might find some of the errors and emissions of books, pamphlets on this site. If not, ask questions on a specific area of interest.

Fact: the PG is just a guide and does not sell/buy watches--individuals buy/sell.

Fact: standards are different depending on the buyers sophistication and knowledge.

Fact: markets vary, depending on the venue.

Fact: Knowledge is King, and always has been!

Fact: there are many book sources for information: however, all have either emissions or gross errors.

Fact: best way to learn is to look at as many watches as possible--this could take many years. Use my "stare and compare" method.

Fact: the best assistance after the book reads is to have a mentor. Remember, the most important thing to know if you do not know, is to know who to ask!

Question: is the topic poster a collector or dealer? It appears "onlinedeals" is an on line seller, and fleabay represents the best place to be a cusual seller.

[lamarw]

I have a fair library, but it is nice to have the current and up todate advice Andy, Jerry, John, Jon, Kent, Tom and other true experts add to this Forum on a daily basis. I will only drain from your expertise and comprehend little of it; although I share your joy.

I want to thank each of you for your daily contributions. This is what the NAWCC is all about. Thank You.

[Ray Fanchamps]

Just by way of an explanation. You will see username from the original post has changed. A request was made to change the name so there would be no confusion or auction promotion through the same name.

[Jon Hanson]

Indeed--the request on the name change was made by me on 9/27 to moderator Fred. What took so long?

[Jeff Hess]

The Shugart book is a primer. no more and no less.

If you are a newbie, it is manna. But for sure, you will want to branch out after a year or so to more in depth books.

For my college classes, I recommend buying old Sothebys and Christie's Catalgoues and old Antiquorum catelogues. Cheap and fun and a ton of info.

Jeff

[Kent]

American Pocket Watch Encyclopedia and Price Guide Volume 1, Roy Ehrhardt, Heart of America Press, Kansas City, MO, 1982.
American Pocket and Wrist Watch Balance Staff Interchangeability List, Col. George E. Townsend, Heart of America Press, Kansas City, MO, 1982 (no longer in print).
American Pocket Watch Identification and Price Guide, Book 2, Roy Ehrhardt, Heart of America Press, Kansas City, MO, 1974 (no longer in print).
American Pocket Watch 1976 Price Indicator, Identification and Price Guide, Roy Ehrhardt, Heart of America Press, Kansas City, MO, 1976 (no longer in print).
American Pocket Watch 1977 Price Indicator, Identification and Price Guide, Roy Ehrhardt, Heart of America Press, Kansas City, MO, 1977 (no longer in print).
American Pocket Watch 1978 Price Indicator, Identification and Price Guide, Roy Ehrhardt, Heart of America Press, Kansas City, MO, 1978 (no longer in print).
American Pocket Watch 1980 Price Indicator, Identification and Price Guide, Roy Ehrhardt, Heart of America Press, Kansas City, MO, 1980 (no longer in print).
American Pocket Watches Vol. 1, Encyclopedia and Price Guide, Roy Ehrhardt, Heart of America Press, Kansas City, MO, 1982 (no longer in print).
American Pocket Watches Vol. 2, Illinois Watch Co., Encyclopedia and Price Guide, William Meggers, Jr. & Roy Ehrhardt, Heart of America Press, Kansas City, MO, 1985 (no longer in print)
American Pocket Watches Beginning to End...1830-1980, Identification and Price Guide, Roy Ehrhardt & William Meggers, Jr., Heart of America Press, Kansas City, MO, 1987 (commonly referred to as “The Gold Book� - no longer in print - you might find it on eBay).
American Pocket Watches Serial Number Grade Book, 1993 Prices, Roy Ehrhardt & William Meggers, Jr., Heart of America Press, Kansas City, MO, 1993 (no longer in print).
American Railroad Watches, George E. Townsend, Col. G.E. Townsend, Alma, MI, 1977 (no longer in print).
American Watchmaking - A Technical History of the American Watch Industry 1850-1930, Michael C. Harrold, Bulletin Supplement No. 14, Spring 1984.
“Aurora Watch Company - Grades and Production," Greg Frauenhoff (http://www.nawcc-mb.com/bbv2/bbBoard.cgi?a=redirect;url=http%3A%2F%2Fhometown%2 Eaol%2Ecom%2Fgfrauen10%2Fbooks%2Ehtml), Sedalia, CO, 1995, the 2nd Edition (2003) is still in print.
The Complete History of Watch Making in America - Reprinted from the Jewelers' Circular and Horological Review 1885-1887, Charles S. Crossman, Adams Brown Co., Exeter, NH, undated, but probably late 1980's.
Elgin Watch Company - Identification and Price Guide, Roy Ehrhardt, Heart of America Press, Kansas City, MO, 1976 (no longer in print).
Foreign & American Pocket Watch Identification and Price Guide - Book 3, Roy Ehrhardt, Heart of America Press, Kansas City, MO, 1976 (no longer in print).
From Springfield To Moscow: The Complete Dueber-Hampden Story, (Revised and enlarged successor to the 1954 Supplement to the NAWCC Bulletin) James W. Gibbs, Philadelphia, PA, 1986 (this should be available to members on loan by mail from the NAWCC Library & Research Center[/color] (http://www.nawcc.org/Library/library.htm)).
Guide to Watch Holders, A, James J. Niehaus, Hunter Printing, S. Mary’s, OH, 1978.
Hamilton Hand-Written Serial Numbers No. 1 To 824,700, by Col. George E. Townsend, by Roy Ehrhardt, Heart of America Press (http://www.hoapress.com), Kansas City, MO, 2000 (no longer in print).
Hamilton Serial Numbers and Production Figures with Price Guide, Roy Ehrhardt, Heart of America Press (http://www.hoapress.com), Kansas City, MO, 1981 (no longer in print).
The Hampden Watch Co., NAWCC Special Order Supplement #1, J. Hernick and R. Arnold, NAWCC, Columbia, PA, 1997 (no longer in print).
History and Products of the Columbus Watch Company, Greg Frauenhoff (http://www.nawcc-mb.com/bbv2/bbBoard.cgi?a=redirect;url=http%3A%2F%2Fhometown%2 Eaol%2Ecom%2Fgfrauen10%2Fbooks%2Ehtml), Sedalia, CO, 2003 (still in print).
History and Products of the United States Watch Company Waltham, Mass., Greg Frauenhoff (http://www.nawcc-mb.com/bbv2/bbBoard.cgi?a=redirect;url=http%3A%2F%2Fhometown%2 Eaol%2Ecom%2Fgfrauen10%2Fbooks%2Ehtml), Sedalia, CO, 2003 (still in print).
History of the American Watch Case, Warren H. Niebling, Whitmore Publishing, Philadelphia, PA, 1971 (available on loan by mail to members from the NAWCC Library & Research Center (http://www.nawcc.org/Library/library.htm))
“How and Why Own a South Bend Watch, South Bend Watch Co., South Bend, IN, 1914, reprinted by Arlington Horology & Book Co., Arlington, VA, undated, but probably early 1980s.
E. Howard & Co. Watches 1858-1903, George E. Townsend, Heart of America Press (http://www.hoapress.com), Kansas City, MO, 1985 (no longer in print).
Howard Movement And Material Catalog (Including Crown and New York Standard Movements and Materials.) With Original Prices of Materials, January 1, 1919, Manfred Trauring, Yorktown Heights, NY.
Howard Watches – An Illustrated Description of the Complete Series of Howards – Including the Latest Developments in this Celebrated Watch, E. Howard Watch Works, Waltham, Mass, September, 1912, reprinted by Vintage Catalogs (http://www.vintagecatalogs.com/ ), 2003.
Howard Watches - Catalogue No. 7, E. Howard Watch Works, 1918, reprinted by the Arlington Book Co. (http://www.arlingtonbooks.com/), Fairfax, VA, undated, but probably mid-1980’s.
Illustrated Manual of American Watch Movements, E & J Swigart Co, Cincinnati, OH, 1952
Ingenious Yankees - The Rise of the American System of Manufactures in the Private Sector, Donald R. Hoke, Columbia University Press, New York, NY, 1990
Keystone Watch Case Co. Material Catalog, Keystone Watch Case Co., 1919. reprinted by Clock Works Press, Shingle Springs, CA, 1999
Marion - A History of The United States Watch Company, William Muir & Bernard Kraus, NAWCC Special Publication No. 1, Columbia, PA, 1985 (Available at the NAWCC Gift Shop (http://www.nawcc.org/giftshop/americart/bk_watch.htm)).
The New Collector's Guide to Pocket Watches, Barry S. Goldberg, Somerville, MA, 2000.
(http://members.xoom.com/zillatemple/watchguide.htm)
The Name Rockford Designates A High Grade Watch, Rockford Watch Co., Rockford, IL, 1906.
100 Plus Years of Railroad Watches and Railroad Watch Standards in North America, Greg Frauenhoff (http://www.nawcc-mb.com/bbv2/bbBoard.cgi?a=redirect;url=http%3A%2F%2Fhometown%2 Eaol%2Ecom%2Fgfrauen10%2Fbooks%2Ehtml), Sedalia, CO, 1999 (still in print).
“Pocket Watch Handbook, The,� M. Cutmore, Arco Publishing, New York, NY, 1985.
Priceless Possession of a Few, The, Supplement (#10) to the Bulletin of the National Association of Watch and Clock Collectors, Eugene Fuller, NAWCC, Columbia, PA, 1974
Railroad Timekeeping, James L. Hernick, NAWCC Chicagoland Chapter #3 and the Midwest Regional Convention, 1996.
The Perfected American Watch, an English catalog, by the Waltham Watch Co., Waltham, MA, 1907.
The Priceless Possessions Of A Few, A brief History of the Gruen Watch Company, their 50th Anniversary Watch and Contemporary Prestige Watches, by Eugene T. Fuller, NAWCC Bulletin, Special Supplement No. 10, Winter, 1974 (see: http://www.webhorology-mb.infopop.cc/EBook.html)
Railroad Watches Identification and Price Guide, Roy Ehrhardt & William Meggers, Jr., Heart of America Press (http://www.hoapress.com), Kansas City, MO, 1995 (no longer in print).
Railroad Watch Inspectors, [/u][/b] Greg Frauenhoff (http://www.nawcc-mb.com/bbv2/bbBoard.cgi?a=redirect;url=http%3A%2F%2Fhometown%2 Eaol%2Ecom%2Fgfrauen10%2Fbooks%2Ehtml), Sedalia, CO, 2000 (still in print).
Revolution In Time, by David S. Landes, Belknap Press of Harvard University Press, Cambridge, MA & London, England, 1983.
Rockford Watch Company Grade and Serial Numbers with Production Figures, Roy Ehrhardt, Heart of America Press, Kansas City, MO, 1976 (no longer in print).
Santa Fe: How It Governed Its Timepieces Throughout the System, David M. Nicholson, Dougherty Press, Enid OK, 1985
“Sears, Roebuck and Co., Inc. Catalogue No. 104,� Chicago, IL, 1897, reprinted by Chelsea House, Philadelphia, PA, 1968.
Sears, Roebuck and Co., Inc. Catalogue No. 111, Chicago, IL, 1902, reprinted by Bounty Books, Crown Publishers, New York, NY, 1969.
Selling The True Time, Nineteenth-Century Timekeeping in America, Ian R. Bartky, Stanford University Press, Stanford, CA, 2000, pg.29
Serial List - New York Watch Company-Springfield, Mass., R.J. Ziebell, Old Post Office Clock Shop, Ipswitch, MA, 1972.
S.F. Myers & Co. Illustrated Price List No. 31 1890, S.F. Myers, New York, NY, 1890, Selected sections reprinted by Fifth Annual Midwest Regional, Chicago, IL, 1976.
Serial Numbers and Descriptions of Fredonia and Peoria Watch Co. Movements, Greg Frauenhoff (http://www.nawcc-mb.com/bbv2/bbBoard.cgi?a=redirect;url=http%3A%2F%2Fhometown%2 Eaol%2Ecom%2Fgfrauen10%2Fbooks%2Ehtml), Sedalia, CO, 2001..
Serial Numbers With Description of Waltham Watch Movements, Waltham Watch Co., Waltham, MA, 1954, (commonly referred to as "The Gray Book").
Seth Thomas Watches, Chris H. Bailey, American Clock & Watch Museum, Inc., Bristol, CT, 1981 (a copy may be available on loan by mail to members from the NAWCC Library & Research Center (http://www.nawcc.org/Library/library.htm))
The South Bend Watch Co. - South Bend, Indiana - A Complete Listing of Serial / Grade Numbers from Beginning to End, Lyle & Donna Stratton, Longmont, CO, 1999.
Swiss Timepiece Makers 1775-1975, Kathleen Pritchard, Phoenix Publishing, West Kennebunk, ME, 1998.
Time For America - Hamilton Watch 1892-1992, Don Sauers, Sutter House, Lititz, PA, 1992.
The Time Museum Historical Catalog of American Pocket Watches, Donald R. Hoke, The Time Museum, Rockford, IL, 1991.
Timex - A Company and its Community, 1854-1998, Kathleen McDermott, Timex Corp., 1998
Timing a Century - History of the Waltham Watch Company, Charles W. Moore, Harvard University Press, Cambridge, MA, 1945.
Timing A Century - History of the Waltham Watch Company, Charles W. Moore, D.C.S., Harvard University Press, Cambridge, MA, 1945.
Swiss Timepiece Makers 1775-1975, Kathleen Pritchard, Phoenix Publishing, West Kennebunk, ME, 1998.
“Tool & Material Catalogue,[u]" Benjamin Allen, Chicago, IL, 1898, republished on CD by Golden Age Archives[/color] (http://www.geocities.com/rombooks/store/161jewlx.htm) as "Benjamin Allen Jeweler/Watchmaker Materials Catalog 1898."
Treasury of Railroad Folklore, A, B. A. Botkin and Alvin F. Harlow, Bonanza Books, NY, 1953
[u]Waltham Pocket Watch Identification and Price Guide, Roy Ehrhardt, Heart of America Press, Kansas City, MO, 1976.
“Watch Case Makers of England,� Philip T. Priestley, NAWCC Bulletin Supplement 20, Spring, 1994.
The Watch Factories of America, Henry G. Abbott, Hazlitt & Co., Chicago, IL, 1888 (reprinted by Adams Brown Co. 1981), pg. 67.
“The Watch That Made The Dollar Famous - Encyclopedia of Dollar Watches,� George E. Townsend, Col. G.E. Townsend, Alma, MI, 1974.
Watches by Automatic Machinery at Waltham, E.A. Marsh, Geo. K. Hazlitt & Co., Chicago, Il 1896, Reprinted by Adams Brown Co., Exeter, NH, 1968
The Watchmakers of Massachusetts, August C. Bolino, Kensington Historical Press, Washington, DC, 1987.
The Watchman's Clock in America, a Brief History, Philip H. Haselton, Print-It, New Braunfels, TX, 1993 (available on loan by mail to members from the NAWCC Library & Research Center[/color] (http://www.nawcc.org/Library/library.htm)).
The Watch Repairer's Manual - Fourth Edition, Henry B. Fried, American Watchmakers Institute Press, Cincinnati, OH, 1986 (Available at the NAWCC Gift Shop (http://www.nawcc.org/giftshop/americart/bk_watch.htm)).

[Ray Fanchamps]

Earlier I moved a post from Bryan E to the "MB problems/comments area" for further discussion. It was not deleted. As Bryan noted it was off topic. I was trying to avoid having to insert more "off topic" notes here.
Please continue the book discussion here. The name discussion is in the MB problems area.
Thanks.

[kirxklox]

Wouldn't this discussion be more appropriate on the "Horological Books Forum?"

[Jon Hanson]

yes

[Kent]

I see that I missed a significant book, to wit:

A Study of E. Howard & Co. Watchmaking Innovations 1858-1875, NAWCC Special Order Supplement #6, Clint B. Geller, Ph.D., NAWCC, Columbia, PA, 2005.

Clint had virtually all of Col. Geo. Townsend's information (including a copy of his notebook) available to him when he wrote my book, as well as a whole lot more (including all the surviving factory records, his own notes and image databases, and the Internet). Thus he was able to take the subject much further than Col. Townsend did in writing E. Howard & Co. Watches 1858-1903. Thus, Clint was able to correct a number of mistakes that occurred in E. Howard & Co. Watches 1858-1903.

[Jon Hanson]

And, many others!

[Kim G.]

Thanks Kent!

Kim Gerard

[Kim G.]

What about the book "Collector's Price Guide to American Pocket Watches", 6th Edition (1985) by David Criss? Recommended?

Kim G.

[Fred Hansen]

That one wouldn't be on my short list Kim.

I think I have an old copy of the Criss book somewhere around here but the only time I ever look at it is to view some of the black and white watch photos it contains.

For watch photos though my choice as the best books for the cost are the 1978, 1979, and 1980 "Price Indicators" by Roy Ehrhardt and I use my copies of these very often.

Fred

[Jon Hanson]

JUST throw out the worthless Criss book--there are no pictures of anything you can see elsewhere!

[Jeff Hess]

I would suggest you reading any and all books you can get your hands on.

many of the books mentioned have errors and as discussed many times, continuing and ongoing research often makes a mockery of past "conventional wisdom".

so While Shugarts books are absolutely terrifc "primers" you cannot take everything it says a gospel. Many things in it are out-dated and prices are often too high on common stuff and way too low on rarer or scarcer stuff.

Get ALL the books you can.

Another set of "books" to get is the Rockford museum sale at Sothebys. Thse catalogues are intriguing. The Antiquorum catelogues of American Watches is terrific, even though some of the watches were, in the opinion of many, not 100 percent original. And some of the historical info (especially about BALL) was just plain stupid.

Buy them all! Sift through them all. If you take to the hobby like many of have, you will spend all of your free time reading it all and eventually form you OWN opinion.

then you can get on here and blast away with great abandon and opinionated glee like the rest of use! :) :} :rolleyes: :confused: Jeff

[Jon Hanson]

The best picture book, just might be the joke book, i.e. American Pocket Watches at the Time Museum; however, there are thousands of errors and omissions like all books, articles & blogs but the color pictures are large and clear.

[Kim G.]

My friend just found the following at the thrift store!

American Pocket Watch Identification and Price Guide, 1976 Price Indicator, First Printing Fall 1975 by Roy Ehrhardt. On the inside front cover there is a picture of Roy Ehrhardt and his signature above it! Are they all signed?

Waltham Pocket Watch Identification and Price Guide Using Serial Numbers and Pictures of Waltham Watch Movements by Roy Ehrhardt, First Edition Printed January 1976.

Illinois Identification and Price Guide by Roy Ehrhardt, First Printing Spring 1976.

Elgin Watch Company Identification and Price Guide by Roy Ehrhardt, Second Printing, Spring 1976.

Vintage American & European Wrist Watch Guide by Sherry Ehrhardt and Peter Planes, First Edition (I can't find the year).

Good find huh?

Kim G.

[Kent]

Yep! Good find!

[Jon Hanson]

One of the 149 members , I believe, has unused copies of many of the Ehrhardt books for sale.

[Kim G.]

I didn't realize that Roy Ehrhardt passed away until I was looking at some old threads. Are all of the books like the one below signed? If not, this one is pretty special!

Kim Gerard
NAWCC Member #0169537

[Kent]

No, they're not all signed. and, it's nice to have his signature on them.

Roy had tables at a lot of conventions over the decades and I'm sure he signed a goodly number of his books. But, I've bought a lot of his books directly from him and never thought of asking him to sign them. That was probbaly the case with a lot of us.

[Jon Hanson]

It is mostly the earlier ones that he signed; as the production increased less were signed.

He also signed ones he sent out to friends and contributors.