Pocket watch Collection

[Jeff Hamilton]

I just came into a few pocket watches (about 40) and I thought I would share them with the group. Most of the watches are American, but their are a few Swiss watches pictured (Sorry Jon). Rather than upload the pictures here, I uploaded them to my website so you can view them in a larger format. I have tried to describe them the best I can, but I have very little knowledge about pocket watches.
The pictures can be viewed at www.clockmaker.com (http://www.clockmaker.com/watches/index.html). There are thumbnails on the main page, just click on the thumbnail to view the larger image.

Jeff

[Fred Hansen]

Thanks for posting Jeff. Are you looking for more info on some of these?

Fred

[Jeff Hamilton]

Thanks for posting Jeff. Are you looking for more info on some of these?

Fred

Fred,

If I have any bad information listed I wouldn't mind an update. I know several members collect data on these watches so I figured I would post what I had. What I know about the watches is listed at the bottom right hand corner of the large images.

I know the pictures are large, but I know how watch guys like to see the detail.

Jeff

[Kent]

Hi Jeff:

Thanks for posting the watch pictures. Here's a few corrections.

The John C. Dueber isn't a 15-size Swiss watch, it's an 18-size Hampden watch made in Canton, Ohio.

The other "full-plate" watches (like the John C. Dueber) are also 18-size: Hamilton 940, Columbus Railroad Monarch (which is nice marking despite its condition), Bridgeport (which is a Swiss fake) and large (same size) Waltham and Elgin watches.

The Ball 435C is a size-16, as is the: Hamilton 992 and the Illinois 1908138.

The Howard is a 12/14-size.

[Jeff Hamilton]

Kent,

Thanks for the updates. My question for you is what am I measuring wrong? Cooksey's book say 42.32mm is a size 15 and that is what it measures across the movement. Glad to hear it's American not Swiss.

Jeff

[Kent]

Jeff:

For the most part, I don't actually measure movements. The big three sizes in which I'm interested (well, I'm really interested in two, but there are three) are 18, 16 and 12. I can almost always pick them out by sight, but the real determination is in holding them in my hand. However, to address your question:

Like many of our other systems of measurement, American pocket watch movement and case sizes can be traced back to an English system, one known as the Lancashire gage. In this system, the size is based upon the diameter of the watch plate to which the dial is fastened, known as the pillar plate. 0-size has a pillar plate diameter of 1-5/30" (yeah, right!). Nominal sizes then increment by 1/30" for each count. Although there are exceptions, most American pocket watches, and Swiss pocket watches made for the North American market, are sized to even numbers with the most common being 0, 6, 12, 16 and 18. These account for the vast majority of American-made watches. A 6-size watch has a pillar plate diameter of 1-5/30" plus 6/30", or 1-11/30". The diameter of a 16-size movement's pillar plate is 1-21/30", and an 18-size watch is one whose pillar plate diameter is 1-23/30" ( 1-5/30" plus 16/30" and 18/30" respectively). For sizes below 0-size (written x/0), the 1/30” is subtracted from the 1-5/30. Thus a 6/0-size watch has a pillar plate diameter of 29/30”. This is right up there with 12 inches to a foot, 16 ounces to a pound and 32 ounces to a quart. The same people have brought us the term hundredweight, which isn’t a hundred of anything but it is equal to 8 stone. Since a stone is equal to 14 pounds, a hundredweight is equal to 112 pounds.

The fact that even sizes are almost always used, alleviating the necessity of making very fine distinctions, makes it easy to express the watch size with a fairly close approximation. This doesn't always work, but it should get you close. First, measure the diameter of the dial to the nearest 1/32 of an inch, then subtract 1/32" and then subtract 1-5/32". For example, the dial diameter of a 16-size watch is 1-22/32". Subtracting 1/32", we get 1-21/32". Subtracting 1-5/32" leaves 16/32", Hence, its a 16-size watch. Remember to be careful of the hands when measuring the dial diameter. In order to measure the dial diameter, and only the dial diameter, don’t include any part of the case. The bezel, the metal ring that holds the crystal (glass), will have to be removed or opened. In the manner similar to the backs of watches, the bezel either hinges, snaps or unscrews open on an open-face watch and snaps off on a hunting-case watch.

[Tom McIntyre]

Jeff, if you were consistently coming up with sizes that were too small you were likely measuring the back plate instead of the pillar plate.

The back plate is smaller by an amount that used to be called "the drop" which was the clearance needed if the movement was hinged to the front of the case as it is in almost all English watches.

[Jon Hanson]

Add: many KW watches have hinged bezels as well as snap ones.