Need Help re Howard Pocketwatch

[GMT8]

I'm considering buying a Howard, open face pocketwatch. Movement has 17 jewels and number is 1141943. Case is gold-filled, number 1516454. Dial has "Howard" on it, so I'm assuming this was made by Keystone. Numbering on the dial is black arabic, with blue numbers (from 5 to 60) every five minutes on the outer edge of the dial just outside the minute markers. Inset second hand at bottom of the dial with blue numbers every 10 seconds. I was told that this, being "an E. Howard", was among the best-made American pocketwatches, and better than a Hamilton that I was also looking at (which I'm now not so sure about, since this was likely made by Keystone under the Howard name and I don't know anything about the relative quality of this particular pocketwatch, either as a Howard or within the Howard line). I would really appreciate any information regarding this pocketwatch (such as the type of face (seller says it's porcelain), the type and quality of movement, etc.), as well as any reaction to the seller's characterization noted above, that anyone could provide. I apologize if I'm asking for too much or in an inappropriate way, but I'd like to start collecting these fine timepieces and recognize how little I know at this point. Thanks in advance. Mike

[Tom Huber]

Your Howard is a Keystone Howard. Is the case marked Howard Watch Company on the inside of the back cover? All Keystone Howards were cased at the factory. If it is not in the original marked case, and has been recased, the overall value is seriously degraded.

Keystone Howard made a number of grades of 17J, 16 size watches. To be able to definitively name the grade, we will need a clear picture of the movement. Also include a pic of the inside markings of the case.

Tom

[GMT8]

Thanks, Tom. I'll see if I can get some pictures. Mike

[GMT8]

Pending my posting of pictures, does anyone have any opinion on the relative merits of the Keystone Howards v. other American pocketwatches? Thanks, again. Mike

[Kent]

Hi Mike:

Welcome to the NAWCC Pocket Watch Message Board!

Yes, your watch (most likely a 12-size watch) was made by Keystone-Howard (a name used by many collectors to refer to those watches made by the Keystone Watch Case Co. under the Howard name) and this firm made top-tier watches, the best of which equaled or perhaps exceeded that produced by its competition. However, one would have to do some research to say that any given grade sold for more than the corresponding grade made by Hamilton.

Here's some information about the company:
The following information is mostly based upon “The Howard Ten Size Watch,” Arthur N. Borg, NAWCC Bulletin No. 129 (August 1967): pp.941-64.

The Keystone Watch Case Co. purchased the rights to use the Howard name on watches (Note: from the E. Howard Watch & Clock Co. (http://static.flickr.com/30/98352686_6e0ccd8a60_o.jpg)) sometime around 1903, reportedly to provide a market for their better grades of cases. At first, the firm had watches built under the E. Howard name by the American Waltham Watch Co., which Keystone-Howard then marketed. The watches were labeled "E. Howard Watch Co."

Its said that Keystone "finished" these watches at the New York Standard Watch Co., a firm, based in New Jersey, already owned by Keystone. However, it may be that the "finishing" may have simply meant mounting a dial and placing the movement in a case. The reason for the quotation marks is that the term "finish" in the watch industry usually refers to the process of turning a set of raw movement parts into a smoothly functioning movement, as well as adding whatever decorating that was to be done. The overall quality of watches produced by Standard was well below the high grade watches that Keystone-Howard offered and the New York Standard plant may not have had the necessary capability of such fine work.

Back in 1901, the Philadelphia Watch Case Co. had purchased the U.S. Watch Co. at Waltham, see:
elginwatches.org/scans/non_elgin_articles/m_1901_philadelpha_buys_US_watch_co.html
To view, go to the Elgin Watch Collectors Site Home Page at elginwatches.org, then copy and paste the address in your browser's address bar and click on 'Go'.
Jerry Treiman reported in a message board thread About a U.S. Watch Co. Watch that "... the history provided in legal documents for the anti-trust case against Keystone ... states that all of the capital stock of a newly organized Philadelphia Watch Case Co. (August 1900) was owned by Keystone. Thus, Keystone acquired a watch factory in Massachusetts. By 1905, Keystone-Howard had patented a 16-size, 17-jewel, three-quarter plate movement design which they began making in both hunting-case and open-face versions under the “E. Howard Watch Co.” name. Keystone-Howard stopped manufacturing watches around 1930, a victim of the Depression. The rights to the Howard name for use on watches was then sold to Hamilton.

A reprint of a 48-page 1912 Howard catalog is available from Vintage Catalogs (http://www.vintagecatalogs.com/). Also, a reprint of a 52-page 1918 Howard catalog (Catalogue No. 7) is available from Arlington Books (http://www.arlingtonbooks.com).

Pictures and some catalog information on Keystone-Howard watches can be viewed at the excellent E. Howard Watch Co. (http://www.awco.org/EHowardWatch/index.htm) website. Additional pictures and more information can be viewed at Howard Pocket Watches 1858-1930 (http://www.oldwatch.com/howard.html). It is believed that all Keystone-Howard watches were furnished in Howard-signed gold, or gold-filled Keystone or Crescent (a Keystone company) cases. Thus, the case ought to be marked "Howard Watch Co." in addition to Keystone or Crescent markings. . Keystone-Howard’s railroad grade watches are discussed in some detail in the NAWCC Bulletin, April 1999, pages 191-206.


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O.K. I've found a couple of catalogs from the same year. The following Hamilton catalog may be viewed online: 1912 Hamilton Hand Book (http://scriptorium.lib.duke.edu/dynaweb/eaa/databases/ephemera/@Generic__BookTextView/39505;nh=1?DwebQuery=Hamilton+#X) (courtesy of Duke University's "Emergence of Advertising in America" website).

As mentioned above, a reprint of a 48-page 1912 Howard catalog is available from Vintage Catalogs (http://www.vintagecatalogs.com/).

One has to consider that the weight of the gold cases may not be the same and that this will account for some difference in cost.

16-size, 23-jewel, open face, lever-set (or pendant-set), adjusted to five positions:
In an extra heavy 14K case:
Hamilton No. 950 ....... $110.00
Howard Series 0 ......... $140.00

In a heavy 14K case:
Hamilton No. 950 ....... $100.00
Howard Series 0 ......... $125.00


12-size, 19-jewel open-face, adjusted to five positisons:
In an heavy 14K case:
Hamilton No. 900 ....... $85.00
Howard Series 6 ......... $95.00

Edited to add comparative pricing.

[GMT8]

Thanks, Kent--this is very helpful. I'd read some descriptions from other sites that were no where near as informative. I really appreciate your taking the time to put this together. Mike