Help identify watch

[hulk2003]

Hi I have a pocket watch that says dueber watch co but this is what confussing me it has a hampden dail on it was this a comman practice to put a dail on a differnt movement.

[Norman Bliss]

Hi I have a pocket watch that says dueber watch co but this is what confussing me it has a hampden dail on it was this a comman practice to put a dail on a differnt movement.

John Dueber, owner of the Dueber Watch Case Co., bought the Hampden watch company & moved it to Canton Ohio, where he built two factories on the same land, one for the case co., and one for the watch co. They were separate companies. Others can tell you more, but I believe Dueber Watch Co. was a grade indication for Hampden watches.

Norman

[Kent]

hulk2003:

As Norman posted, Dueber Watch Co. is the grade of the Hampden Watch Co. movement. This grade was made in both 16-size and 18 size, 15-jewel (18-size only), 17-jewel and 21-jewel.
Checking in The Hampden Watch Co., (NAWCC Special Order Supplement #1, J. Hernick and R. Arnold, NAWCC, Columbia, PA, 1997), I now see that the Dueber Watch Co. grade was made in a much wider variety of jeweling arrangements than I thought when writing the above, including a 16-size 15-jewel movement.

Would you please share your watch's serial number, size, OF or HC and how many jewels it has? Is it marked "Adjusted" or "Adjusted Five Positions" or not marked?

An example of the 18-size, 21-jewel Dueber Watch Co. grade may be seen on page DH02 of the 1917 Oskamp-Nolting Catalog at:
www.elginwatches.com/scans/sales_catalogs/1917_Oskamp-Nolting/m_index.html

To view, go to the Elgin Watch Collectors Site Home Page at elginwatches.org, then copy and paste the address in your browser's address bar and click on 'Go'.

To add to what Norman posted, in 1888-1889, both operations were moved to a dual, attached set of factory buildings in Canton, OH (http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y284/walt845/1889_Aug_Dueber_Factory_LR.jpg). The two factory buildings may be seen in this Ad From 1900 (http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y284/walt845/1900_Lever_Set_LR.jpg). The Dueber Watch Case Manufacturing Co. was a separate company from the Hampden Watch Co., although the ads used the Dueber-Hampden name and that name was (and still is) in common usage, and they were housed in adjacent buildings. It stayed that way until about 1925 when they formally combined. The companies continued in business, producing both watches and cases until falling sales in the mid-1920's led to receivership in 1927. The manufacturing equipment, parts on hand and work in progress were sold to Russia. Operations ceased in 1930 when the machinery was shipped to Russia. It is believed that all factory records either went with the equipment, or were destroyed, and there are no surviving records from which to match serial numbers of watches against models and grades. Nevertheless, Messrs. J. Hernick and R. Arnold, by collecting descriptions of Dueber-Hampden watches, with serial numbers, over a decade or more, were able to partially reconstruct the serial number vs. grade/description list. This was published as “The Hampden Watch Co.,” NAWCC Special Order Supplement #1, J. Hernick and R. Arnold, NAWCC, Columbia, PA, 1997 (also available to members on loan by mail from the NAWCC Library & Research Center (http://www.nawcc.org/Library/library.htm)).

Basic information about a Dueber-Hampden watch may be obtained online using Henry Burgell's Interactive Hampden Serial Number Lookup Table (http://www.nawcc-ch149.com/db_resch/Hampden_1230.html). Since this is based upon a "recreated" serial number list (the factory records were lost or destroyed), there may be occasional errors. Oldwatch.com's Hampden Production Date Chart (http://www.oldwatch.com/hampdendate.html), or the PocketWatchSite's Hampden Date Table (http://www.pocketwatchsite.com/hampdenserials.html), are also online means for determining the very approximate production date of Hampden pocket watches. Use the serial number on the movement (the “works”), not the serial number on the case. In general, we think of serial number vs. date lists - created by using the average number of watches produced over a period of years - to only be accurate within a year or two at best, and recognize that there are numerous exceptions wherein which the dates may be off as much as 3 years or more. This is not just for Hampden, but for other watch manufacturers as well.

Edited to correct varuety of Dueber Watch Co. grade.

[hulk2003]

Hi kent the information you ask for is here is the serial number 2097325 it a 21 jewel watch it says adjusted not really sure what you asking for when you ask for "of or hc".

[Veritas]

He is asking is it open faced case or a hunter case, which winds at the 3. :thumb:

[hulk2003]

thanks kevin its a open face pocket watch.

[Kent]

hulk2003:

Thanks for the information. Your watch is an earlier version of the Dueber Watch Co. grade shown on page DH02 of the 1917 Oskamp-Nolting Catalog (noted above). From that page, you can see where it fit in Dueber-Hampden's line of 18-size watches. The only real difference from the one shown would be that it was built prior to the 1906-1908 era when the railroad time service rules started required that watches must be adjusted to five positions and be so stamped on the plates. Nevertheless, it is a railroad standard watch.

In case you are unaware of it:
Many people have come to call any large old pocket watch, especially one with an engraving of a locomotive on the back of the case, a railroad watch. This usage is frequently is incorrect. The term "Railroad Watch" was used by the watch and jewelry trade (and is now used by collectors) to refer those high grade watches that met the requirements of railroad time service rules and standards. The railroad industry, and the railroaders themselves, referred to the watches as "Standard Watches," literally, those watches that met the railroads' time service standards.

Although the person who originally owned a watch may have worked for a railroad, it is not necessarily what could properly be called a "Railroad Watch." The use of a standard watch was only required of a portion of railroad employes (correct spelling, used in many older railroad documents), usually those directly involved in running the trains, or controlling, or affecting, the operation of trains. Other employes carried whatever watches they liked. Typical lists of those required to carry a standard watch appear in an 1892 report of Time Inspection on the Illinois Central Railroad (http://photos13.flickr.com/18116144_9bc4fcef3f_b.jpg) and as Standard Time Rule No. 2 in a 1901 Edition of Canadian Pacific Railway General, Train, and Interlocking Rules (http://photos9.flickr.com/13887167_289ea8006f_o.jpg). A later list of Burlington Route employes required to carry a standard watch is shown in these 1949 CB&Q Rules (http://static.flickr.com/45/174562668_28998da6c1_o.jpg). The Union Pacific RR website has concise explanations of Past and Present Railroad Job Descriptions (http://www.uprr.com/aboutup/history/jobs.shtml)

To learn more about railroad time service, time inspection and railroad standard watches, see ”Just What Is A Railroad Watch?” On the Pocket Horology, NAWCC Chapter 174 Website (http://www.pockethorology.org/) (scroll down to the title of the article). However, please keep in mind that information that became available since the above was written indicates that hunting-case watches were not specifically prohibited from railroad time service, at least, not as early as 1906-1908.

[hulk2003]

thanks kent for the information and everybody else who post on this topic I learn alot from you guys the guy who was selling it was asking 450 for it but I only paid a 127 dollars for it.