Hamilton 950B dates

[Ralph Porter]

Hi folks,

I've tried through several sources to determine the production year of 2 model 350Bs and have arrived at the following:

sn S19941.......1962
sn S26413.......1965

There's been some local discussion of the watches that has cast doubts on the accuracy of these dates???. I would appreciate your help to date these watches. It would also help to know the source of the date info.

Thanks in advance,
Ralph
corrected thread title

[Robert Sweet]

Ralph,
If you are referring to 950B's, S21100 was produced in 1953 and S24588 in 1959. These dates are from the factory records and may be of some help.

Robert

[Ralph Porter]

Ha, Ha, Ha,
Yes Robert, the 950B for sure, thank you very much!! :clap:

I was trying to type the message while talking with my son about film sizes and apparently my brain crossed 35mm with 950B in the process. I'll have to focus on one subject at a time. :/

Thanks again,
Ralph

[terry hall]

the year 1954 seems to be the end of 'official' records from hamilton...

one reference indicates S21100 being 1953....

so later serial numbers would be a 'guestimate' at least...

There are however, some indications...

a seemingly 'correct' watch with a presentation/dedication date... or a perhaps a boxed example with some paperwork...

this could be used for dating after this time frame... IF and When they show up???

There may be some other clues, but not of a permanent type... it will take more 'study' to see if a theory develops on this route...

remember also, that some of the very very very last S prefixes may NOT have been finished as 950B movements :o

[Ralph Porter]

Do the factory records provide dates for runs by serial number groups for the 50's and early 60's? I was hoping to get a little closer with a year for those two 950B serial numbers.

Thanks,
Ralph

[Ralph Porter]

Thanks Terry,
I sometimes forget that for all Hamilton's great early record-keeping,
things began to get slack by the early 50's.
Ralph

[terry hall]

Ralph,
it is a matter of what exists... not how bad or well they kept records

for production after WWII, it is just not there. The largest volume of the ledgers (i believe) ends in the 800xxx serial number range.

There are volumes of ledgers for some of the earliest 992B and some other grades of this time frame, but do not believe they extend into the 50's...

From my observations...

s8393 A could not get case #, smooth case, RR trk dial, baton hands engraved 1951

s10531 k347624 A Smooth, RR track 23j marked dial bat hands, case engraved inside "TO DAD" dated 12-25-1951 ebay9-2002

s13427 k363897 A 1-07 outer box label only, ivory flip box, watch, 332 dial (rrtrk23jrwsmel) bat hands , case back initials, dated 11-26-1952

As you can see, these are MUCH lower in serial number than you are looking at...

I do not show 'many' more personalizations than these so far...

The 950B was apparently a slow seller... and from observations again... quite 'ripe' for switching, upgrading, etc over the years...

the 'real' way to tell is with the matching box label.

[Ralph Porter]

Terry,
Thanks for opening my eyes to the complexity of what I initially thought was a simple question. Continuing education is a wonderful thing! Although I have several of these fine watches, mostly earlier sn's, I have absolutely no documentation.

What I'm hearing is, if the year of production for high-numbered 950B's is important to me, then I'd better get them in labeled boxes. Ahah, if were only that easy! That importance has now deminished and perhaps I should be more concerned about the thought, "quite 'ripe' for switching, upgrading, etc over the years".

Thanks again for all the follow-up info,
Ralph

[Robert Sweet]

Since the time has passed to edit my last post, I would like to make a correction with reference to the production date of 950B, serial number S24588.

I received information from Don Dahlberg that as of Dec. 31, 1957 (not 1959 as posted earlier) there were 24,588, 950B produced. Don indicated that this information was the same as listed in R. Ehrhardt’s Hamilton book. It was my assumption that this information was taken from Hamilton factory records.

R. Ehrhardt’s earlier edition of this same book indicates there were a total of 4,495, 950B’s produced as of Dec. 31, 1948.

The John Gelson/Lowell Halligan records indicate there were a total of 21,100, 950B produced from 1941 to 1953.

It appears that Roy Ehrhardt obtained year-end production totals for several different Hamilton models as listed in his Hamilton book.

Comments will be appreciated.

Robert

[Fred Hansen]

Hi all -

I've just editted the thread title from "Hamilton 350B dates" to the corrected "Hamilton 950B dates".

Great 950B discussion so far and looking forward to any more to come!

Fred

[Robert Sweet]

The "Hamilton Material Catalog" serial number list from 1947 lists the following for the 950B: S001-S3400.

This copyright date of this catalog is 1947, so there is no way to know for sure the exact time for the total of 3,400, 950B's.

Robert

[terry hall]

fred... thank you....

Regarding the dates vs reference info....

I would say in respect to Roy's info.... this was all part of the evolution of research and understandable.

Don's info (i believe) did come from the Halligan writings and were based on factory info and recollection

One point... we may list the production numbers... but assume these are true serial numbers at that time as it is understood S001 was the beginning....

but... I do not know if this also considers 2B701-2B1000 (IF all of these were completed) and the Very Very Late movements we observe finished as 992B movements.

The prior comments of 'ripe for switching' are justified by observations.... when viewing a list of information all in one place, they do stand out.

This 'was' the "top shelf" watch and even in the 1970's and so people 'made up' condition examples...

That further emphasizes the importance of a Boxed, Labeled example for the future. THESE will be the Reference examples, even in "non mongo-bongo" condition...

[Robert Sweet]

Thanks Terry.

It would be nice to reconstruct a serial number list for the 950B as was done for the 992B, with information that is available.

One other problem, no factory ledger information is available for the 950B.

Robert

[Kent]

Thanks Terry.

It would be nice to reconstruct a serial number list for the 950B as was done for the 992B, with information that is available.

One other problem, no factory ledger information is available for the 950B.

Robert



Robert:

I think that some factory ledger information is available for the 950B. I believe that ledger 376 has information of the 2B series, but I'm not where I can check my records.

[Robert Sweet]

Kent,
Below is one 2B run from 1943 and other serial numbers from the Halligan/Gelson list.

Robert

http://i310.photobucket.com/albums/kk403/rmsweet1/Hamilton950B.jpg

[terry hall]

Kent is correct... book 376 contains the 2B series... i do not see a reference for the S prefix series mentioned for ledgers.

Recreation 'can' be done ... but because of the relatively small production of 29k +/- movements it will take TIME for enough examples to show with ANY kind of provenance to make sense.

At This Time I have 200+ entries for 950B grade with quite a few examples yet to add

from what I have seen... many many examples exist(ed) in a mixed up switched up manner that is obvious when reviewing data.

This will be a long row to hoe.

[Robert Sweet]

Thanks Terry, just a thought.

The reason there is a gap in the 950B production chart from middle 1943 to 1946 is that the WPB (War Production Board) prohibited the manufacture of the 23 jewel 950B as outlined in the memo below.

Robert

http://i310.photobucket.com/albums/kk403/rmsweet1/Hamilton950B-StoppedDuringWW2-Large.jpg