elgin model 5 size 18 Jewels

[FredWJensen]

The top plate has jewels but the bottom plate has only metal holes.
This is the one of the worst cases of deception. These top plate jewels are really there for show. Any thoughts on this.

[rrwatch]

Fred,
The watch you are describing should have a total of 11 jewels;
Balance hole jewels 2
Balance cap jewels 2
Balance roller jewel 1
Pallet stones 2
Pallet arbor (top) 1
Escape wheel (top) 1
3rd wheel (top) 1
4th Wheel (top) 1

TOTAL 11

[Norman Bliss]

Fred, here's an earlier thread Click Here (http://www.nawcc-mb.com/bbv2/bbBoard.cgi?a=viewthread;fid=3;gtid=141952;pagenum ber=1)on jeweling which touches on your example.

[Fred Hansen]

This practice was extremely common in the American pocketwatch industry.

A huge number of 11 jewel watches were produced with visible jeweling on the top plate but with no associated jeweling on the other side. A few of the companies making these were ...

Waltham
Elgin
Hampden
Illinois
Aurora
Hamilton (though they made very few)
Rockford
Columbus
Seth Thomas
United States (Marion)
Cornell
Lancaster
New York

... and I'm sure others did this as well.

I don't know if anyone has studied the total numbers, but I would think that in the American pocketwatch industry the 11 jewel watch with train jewels arranged opposite one another is probably very much in the minority to those with train jewels arranged alongside one another on the top plate.

Cosmetic appearance and salesmanship were very important in promoting the sales of 11 jewel watch ... and for an example Illinois left no doubt about their aims in describing their 11 jewel Currier grade in an 1875 sales catalog ... "[b]The upper (or top) plate being fully jeweled, the watch has an appearance almost equal to the higher grades.[b]"

Fred

[IMHO]

Fred,

Then Illinois moved that guy to the loading dock and it was never mentioned in an ad again other than within the specifications section (if supplied)!!

:wink:

Dave

ps. the eBay watch sales mentality did not start with eBay watch sales!

[IMHO]

In a simlar vein, isn't it also true that jewles numbering above 15 or so, depending on the escapement type, are not significant to timekeeping ability - ie, are purely a marketing device?

For example, one of the most significant precision timekeepers in history - the Hamilton Model 21 ship's chronometer - had only 14 jewels!

Dave

[Norman Bliss]

For example, one of the most significant precision timekeepers in history - the Hamilton Model 21 ship's chronometer - had only 14 jewels!

Other chronometers had as few as 9 or 11 jewels. But chronometers were designed to operate in just one position, and run slightly slower (14,400 BPH, rather than 18,000BPH--and the train runs at half that speed). They were also serviced regularly and handled carefully. It appears Hamilton used hole and cap jewels on the balance and escape wheel, and hole jewels on both fourth wheel pivots, and the lower third wheel pivot. This with the three escapement jewels (locking, unlocking, and impulse) give 14 jewels.

Then again, Hamilton's 36 size chronometer watch and the Model 22 chronometer watch (mounted & unmounted) were 21 jewels, and these were original designs, not watch movements adapted to navigation use.

Norman

[IMHO]

Hi Norman,

Good point about the Model 21 being designed to work only in the dial up position.

Dave