Illinois 'Wolverine

[Harold_C]

Hi all...
I'm being offered this in a deal, but I can;t find any reference to this model. 19J Illinois, marked "Wolverine".
Any information would be greatly appreciated..

http://members.shaw.ca/hacmsts/images/ill1.jpg

http://members.shaw.ca/hacmsts/images/ill2.jpg


Thanks in advance

Harold in Calgary

[Fred Hansen]

Hi Harold -

Am I seeing the serial number correctly as 2768251?

If so this shows in Russ Snyder's Illinois database as a pendent-set grade 306 movement made in about 1915, and one of 3010 grade 306 that were made in the hunting case model 6.

The "Wolverine" marking is one of a great many different one word private-label type "names" that Illinois used on middle grade 16 size movements of this era. Most grade 306 movements would not have had this marking ... the most typical version of the grade 306 would have just the regular Illinois Watch Co. factory markings and a striped damaskeen pattern ... but others would have different private-label type names and damaskeen patterns. So there will be a number of variants you see in the names and damaskeens of the grade 306 and for this reason only a small fraction will have this "Wolverine" name and this damaskeen pattern.

Since I've been tracking Illinois private-labels, I've probably seen about 15 other 16 size Illinois watches in the 1915 to 1920 date range that were marked "Wolverine". These have been in several grades of middle quality 17 and 19 jewel movements, both open face and hunting case. Interestingly I've also seen a pair of early 18 size movements from about 1880 that were also marked "Wolverine", but have not seen any other 16 or 18 size watches with this name. I'm not sure if there is any relation between these early 18 size and the much later 16 size movements, or who the "Wolverine" marking was made for in either case.

Looking at the dial you have shown, my own thought would be that a flat metal conversion dial of this type is likely a replacement for this watch ... I wouldn't think it is "modern" but also I don't think it is likely of the same 1915 vintage as the movement.

Fred

[bernie levine]

Hi all...
I'm being offered this in a deal, but I can;t find any reference to this model. 19J Illinois, marked "Wolverine".
Any information would be greatly appreciated..

http://members.shaw.ca/hacmsts/images/ill1.jpg

http://members.shaw.ca/hacmsts/images/ill2.jpg


Thanks in advance

Harold in Calgary

[bernie levine]

Hi Harold,

I have a wolverine like yours 16 size 19 j HN6P #2768268 (1915) 17 serial away from yours. I believe the dial and case is original . The case is
enscribed and dated 1915. The dial is single sunk satin silver finished with black
arabic numerals that would appear on 16 Bunn Special hunters of the
era. It has a thin circle of gold around the area of the center and around
and the seconds dial where you would normally find the double sunk section of a glass enamel.

[Harold_C]

Thanks... Now the big question, is this.... Is this one at all worth it, or should I pass it over? It seems to me, that this looks like a parts special, ie, not original dial or case...

Cheers
Harold

[Fred Hansen]

I'd say it all depends on two factors ... how much you like it, and price.

The first part comes to your own personal preferences and how interesting you find the watch.

And on this board we also can't talk too much about values ... but I would focus this mainly on the movement and consider how much the "Wolverine" marking and different damaskeen add to the interest for me over the regular factory marked version of the grade 306 Illinois, and then from there I would consider how the dial/case affect the worth to me.

Fred

[Harold_C]

I'd say it all depends on two factors ... how much you like it, and price.

The first part comes to your own personal preferences and how interesting you find the watch.

And on this board we also can't talk too much about values ... but I would focus this mainly on the movement and consider how much the "Wolverine" marking and different damaskeen add to the interest for me over the regular factory marked version of the grade 306 Illinois, and then from there I would consider how the dial/case affect the worth to me.

Fred

Thanks Fred...
I agree, the watch is interesting, being differently marked. Only thing that bugs me is the dial, but I suppose that could fixed if it really bothered me.. Think I'll take the chance...
Thanks for the advice..

Cheers
Harold

[Fred Hansen]

Sounds good Harold and good luck with it!

Something else I should have added above ... often private-label movements will take specific private-label marked dials ... but the other "Wolverine" I've seen have never had anything other than the usual period correct factory marked Illinois dials with them. So I dont' think there is any issue with there having been a specially marked dial originally with this watch.

Fred

[Harold_C]

Its mine, and heading North as we speak.. I'll get some better pics posted once it lands..

Cheers and thanks for the advice...
Harold

[bernie levine]

Harold,
I agree with Freds description and advise, and that you decided to acquire It. . Let me remind your watch "tells some additional stories" about the
Illinois Watch Co. and the American Watch Industry at that time.
(1) your watch is an early example of Illinois 16 size pendant set movements.' Probably to expand its comercial watch market because the
pendant set watch would not be accepted for railway service by most
American railroads. It could have been acceptable by railway employees
not responsible for maintaining time schedules but not for engineers or
train conductors.

(2) your watch is a good example of Illinois use of multi color toning
and damaskeening, and private lable marking of which I believe
the company was notorious.

(3) your watch is an excellant example of later modifications with the
use of the dial to convert a hunting case watch to an open face that
would wind and set at 12.

(3) Your watch is a good example a later cerca 1930s style case which
brings it up to date with the dial.

So in a broader way it helps to tell a story about collecting Illinois watches.